Money is great, but it can also create awkwardness among friends, colleagues, or even strangers. In this post, I want to share an awkward money situation that dragged on for months.
In the end, the money situation was resolved. However, it made me realize that we personal finance enthusiasts are an unusual bunch. It also made me realize the risks of voicing your beliefs if you desire a better life.
The Unfortunate Incident
Several months ago, I took my son to school as I normally do every weekday. I parked on the left-hand side of the curb, got him out, and we were about to head off when I heard a loud thud.
Despite over 80 feet of space in front of my car, a driver had somehow clipped my right tire as she was pulling in. I told my son to wait as I went to inspect the tire, which unfortunately had a large gash in the sidewall. If left unfixed, the tire could blowout and result in a catastrophe. I wasn’t sure if there was an alignment problem as well.
However, my immediate thought was relief since the driver could have bashed into my car's body. This had happened before in Lake Tahoe when a laundry truck under valet's care hit my car overnight. The damage was about $13,000, and the car took two and a half months to fix. In addition, I wouldn’t have to spend three months fixing the car.
The driver who clipped my tire was apologetic. I told her I would have to change both front tires for safety reasons, which would cost about $900. The tire folks always recommend changing all four tires to have matching treads whenever one is in need of change for a 4-wheel-drive vehicle, but I felt that was overkill since my rear tires were only a couple of years old.
After some consideration, I asked her if she'd be willing to just pay to replace the one gashed tire instead. My two front tires had about 15,000 miles on them, so they weren't new, but they also weren't old, with at least two or three years of usage left.
She agreed, no problem, but was clearly frazzled by what she had done.
The Creation Of Awkwardness
After changing both tires for a total of $873.80, I sent her the receipt and asked her to pay $436.90. She could either leave a check at the front desk of the school under my name or mail it to me. She agreed to leave the check at the front desk. Easy peasy.
A week went by, and there was no check at the front desk. Maybe she had forgotten? We saw each other at drop-off the next week, and I thought nothing of it. Then I saw her a couple more times over the next two weeks at drop-off, and still, there was no check. How strange.
If I owe someone money or tell them I will pay them, I do so ASAP. I cannot focus on anything else until the money is paid.
A couple more weeks went by, and I actually forgot about getting the check from her. It was only after seeing her again at drop-off that I remembered.
She told me, “Sorry, I'm going to write you the check. I've just been busy.” It was awkward, but I told her not to worry about it. If it was more convenient, she could just mail me the check. She said OK.
Two and a Half Months Go By and Still No Money
Two and a half months went by since I changed my tires, and still no check at the front desk or in the mail. At this point, it was getting comical since we had run into each other at least six times.
Not sure what to do and not wanting to make things more awkward, I asked my wife for advice during our picnic. She suggested, “Just send her my Venmo account. This way, she'll have no more excuses not to pay.” She was shocked the driver still hadn't paid.
Ah hah! Why didn't I think of that? Well, it's because I still don't have a Venmo account. Further, my Paypal account is a business account.
I texted the driver, “Howdy X, you can send the $436.90 to my wife's Venmo account if you have one too. Let me know. Thanks!”
She responded quickly, “Perfect, that would be easier. So sorry for the delay! We had some budgeting items to work around. Now is OK. I just sent payment to your wife.”
Felt Bad Asking Her to Pay
Dealing with car issues is such a hassle that I wanted to minimize her troubles. She was already embarrassed to have hit my car. I had to spend several hours getting new tires due to this accident.
It was just incomprehensible to me that she clipped my right front tire when pulling in, given there was so much space ahead. So I figured perhaps something was off that morning. Maybe she got in a fight with her husband or her kids slept in or were being difficult. We've all been there.
I've also never seen her partner drop off the kids, so I felt a kinship since I do 99.9% of all drop-offs and pickups. It's no fun rushing to school or driving in rush-hour traffic. Commuting was a top-three pain point when I was working. By discussing how the accident could have been much worse and having her just pay for one tire seemed like a fair and easy resolution.
As someone fascinated with money psychology, I was also curious to see how long it would take her to pay. I didn't want to push her because that would create more awkwardness. However, I was also impressed by how willing she was to endure our awkward encounters multiple times for the sake of delaying payment.
Different Financial Priorities and Financial Health
When she texted back, “We had some budgeting items to work around,” I was surprised and also felt bad again. However, if I owe money, that debt rises to the top of my budgeting/spending list. Nothing matters until that debt is paid. This prioritization is why I would never not pay my rent or mortgage. I signed a contract, so I must honor it.
I was also surprised because I've often heard surveys report things like, “Most Americans can't come up with a $1,000 emergency.” I've always viewed these surveys with suspicion, given that having at least six months of living expenses liquid is a fundamental principle of personal finance.
Finally, given this is an independent school with expensive tuition, I didn't think paying $436.90 would be that big of a deal, especially if she caused the damage. However, I realize not every family who sends their kids to an independent school has lots of money.
I would have waited until the end of the school year to follow up, or a total of four-and-a-half months since she agreed to pay. If she didn't and disappeared, I would just chalk it up to bad luck. It’s not a big deal. Again, I was just happy she didn’t ram the body of my car and cause a lot more damage. We only have one car, so having to go the rental car route and wait 2-3 months to fix the car would be inconvenient.
Update 10/1/2024: I ran into her, the driver who bumped into my tire, at a social function hosted by the school for donors who donated over $5000 to the school remodel campaign. So obviously she was not hurting for money.
We Are Aberrations When It Comes to Money
Alas, the more I interact with society again, the more I realize most people are not personal finance enthusiasts. If you're reading Financial Samurai, you are probably an aberration when it comes to thinking about money too. Some call this financial aberration having money dysmorphia, where you constantly think and worry about money to your detriment.
We talk about aggressively saving and investing money to achieve financial freedom all the time! But that is because perhaps many of us simply don't like our jobs enough to do them long term. Hooray FIRE! Whereas most people don't mind what they do, hence, don't save as much to break free sooner.
I haven't had a day job since 2012, so I haven't been regularly interacting with other adults my age in a work setting. Sure, I hang out with other adults when playing tennis or pickleball, but we only touch upon money and business once in a while. Instead, we are mainly focused on leisurely topics.
I used to live in an online bubble where I could write freely without having to interact with people I didn't like. However, that changed when our children attended school.
Be Careful Sharing Your Money Views In Person
Hence, one lesson I've learned from this awkward money situation is to be careful about making assumptions about how other people view money. Chances are high they have completely different money philosophies and habits than you. As a result, it's best to show some flexibility and grace.
Most importantly, be careful about sharing your money views in person or publicly. They might come across as “out of touch” or “elitist” if you believe people should:
- Have a house-to-car ratio of at least 30
- Pay no more than 1/10th of their gross income for a car
- Earn more than 5X tuition per child to send their kids to private school
- Have a net worth goal or career goal before having kids
- Max out their 401(k) every year and then save an additional 20% of after-tax-, after-401(k) income
- Think you need to make $300,000 to live a middle class lifestyle for a family of four in an expensive city
It’s better to let people figure things out for themselves.
For A Better Life, Keep Quiet
The more your beliefs contradict the majority, the more you may encounter opposition and hate. Therefore, to garner more love and peace in your life, it's advisable to align yourself more closely with the prevailing norms and practices. The chant “We are the 99%” immediately came to mind.
As a minority living in America since 1991, I'm intimately aware of the hate that can come your way if you look differently. I'm also aware of how it's easier to get ahead if you are part of the majority because people naturally tend to befriend and take care of those who resemble them.
You can't help the way you look. But if you also think differently, you could easily be ostracized by the majority. This can happen both online and offline, to the detriment of your financial and mental well-being. Hence, it's best to keep your unique opinions to yourself.
Think About Your Children
It may be too late for you and me, but it's not too late for our children. Teach them this important lesson of assimilation while privately pursuing their dreams.
This uncomfortable truth may sound sad—like how schools indoctrinate our children and stamp out all their creativity by the time they graduate from college. Then it’s off to make as much money as possible in a soul-sucking job.
However, if you are not yet financially independent yet, you can't afford to stray too far outside the lines. If you do, your life will become more difficult as you get passed over for promotion, fail to get support for your creative endeavors, and face other challenges.
Once you have “f you money,” then you can more freely speak your mind. But before then, assimilate with the masses. Be patient. Your time to unleash the Kraken will eventually come!
Reader Questions About Awkward Money Situations
What awkward money situations have you encountered? How did you deal with or resolve them? Besides lending and borrowing money, what other financial situations can create tension and awkwardness?
Would you have waited two and a half months to get paid, despite running into the person multiple times? If not, how long would you have waited before sending a follow-up text?
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Update 10/1/2024: I ran into her, the driver who bumped into my tire, at a social function hosted by the school for donors who donated over $5000 to the school remodel campaign. So obviously she was not hurting for money.
Thanks for the update. I’m glad my “worst case” scenario was not reality. We can all sleep easier this time. ;-)
Hello Sam,
I continue to thoroughly enjoy reading your work. Thank you for the tens of thousands of hours you have put in over the years , to help us all think more critically about our financial futures.
Keeping in mind that no one is rich in the cemetery, and the most we can hope for at the moment of our passing is a peaceful death , surrounded by good friends and loved ones, I offer the following:
Divide you life into Five equal parts.
Faith
Family
Finances
Friends
Fitness
When you fall off the track as so many of us do, consumed by the rat race, devoting all of your time and energy toward chasing after more money please learn to be content with all that you have right now and be happy for it.
Thank you again
Thanks for your comment Frank. Good reminder of the five Fs. We should all do our best to focus on them.
I would kindly ask her each time I see her, “could I please have my money back for the tires? cash or quick pay, anything that works, even an interest free payment plan…” And wait there until I get the money back. We could have empathy for her situation, but we also have the right to get paid for our loss no matter how much we have. The thing is, most of us is still not rich enough to forgo a couple of hundred, or a couple of thousand dollars for no good reasons. We don’t feel good about it. It is not like a donation to a family in need to help them. It is somebody that creates a mess for us clean up with and that person is not stepping in to fix their own problems. We don’t feel good to pay for others’ carelessness or irresponsibility. If she really has difficulty, she could have stepped up and explained to you, rather than ignoring you. Maybe she thought you could afford sending kids to this fancy school, you wouldn’t care about paying for her mistakes!
Yeah, each ask would be an awkward moment, so I just gave her time.
I have someone who owes me $2600~ and refuses to pay me back. This is all math related. Was using their credit card to buy some stuff back before Covid hit in 2020. This was a I use the card, I pay the card, you get all the points deal.
Well Covid 2020 happens and all of the things got refunded over a two year span because events were cancelled. I had already paid the cards off for my spend. The refunds hit and he just kept using the card to pay for his life. Says he “will pay me if he owes me , but there’s no way he still owes me”. I have everything in a file, math isn’t hard. Paid X. Refunded Y. I said I’d gladly wipe it clean if he can somehow prove those refunds never hit (they all did as I have the proof before he changed the login on the card and only a few remained which refunded) and he just says he already gave me back more than was refunded (100% lie) and is not an idiot and not going to pay me even more.
It’s so dumb at this point I’m not sure how to proceed. It’s clear math. he either is the dumbest person ever when it comes to math and truly thinks I’m trying to scam him, or he’s just good with stealing almost 3k from someone and just continually lying about it.
Like Sam , fortunately the 3k to me is not a big deal but the principal of the matter bothers me. If this was $300 I would just tell him to F off.
Ugh, so frustrating. Maybe if you just print out your spreadsheet and show him, he’ll see the light?
Consider the used tire market in the future. I see many of your exact tires online, used, for around $100 shipped. They’re inspected and tested. Plenty of different tread depths so you can find one very close to the other 3. If it’s a matter of principal for her to pay you can go that route, but it sounds like you only needed 1 tire and used would’ve saved you roughly $300 if you swallowed the cost yourself.
Will do. Can you send me a link to the $100 tire? It is a CONTINENTAL CROSSCONTACT LX SPORT SSR Thanks
Yep, there are dozens on ebay. The example below has 7/32″ tread remaining. A new tire is 10/32″. I’m not sure what the “SSR” is, but the below tire matches the Tire Rack link you provided in another comment showing a CONTINENTAL CROSSCONTACT LX SPORT 285/40R22.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/166750608294?fits=Section+Width%3A285%7CRim+Diameter%3A22%7CAspect+Ratio%3A40&itmmeta=01HYX7KM823KDTZPBM0TYK6W81&hash=item26d31c5ba6:g:izEAAOSw6yNmOlNj&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4DIPGbshddnabxGhcQk54CAjyuSl9FLQYpnFxJ26etJv3gU9lERn7TOUypotg7%2FeqSTpppmSPzq1Yhi%2BFA5wHmZ7uj0M%2FIpLqfML7NCUmpUY2%2B6tVk%2BKLwAwvujmVxMS3XIwAV3%2FkolAgIxhKigRLoKN%2B8v5vtwaN9cSLTPhuYfSLIo2a2DHccvq3nnD1taKMg8BpyCnzr%2FQAhhLjJYiZcq6TtC3irH%2B1HMRHCgsVJrMJLAXLtIBtwkZIVQzZr56S44b1EV76mHH0zEGxrTcQND0wLniYe9p0d2B3A9spoCw%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5bEzqf3Yw
Thanks! I guess I can just have the used tire seller ship it to the shop that installs the tire and pay the installation fee and throwaway fee? Seems like a decent solution, provided the seller is reputable and the used tire is decent.
This is something I’ll consider in the future if I get another puncture.
When the accident happened, we spent a total of maybe 2 minutes coming up with a solution after inspecting the damages. And we both agreed to the solution as we then rushed our kids to school on time. And that was that.
Now, after much discussion, if it happens again, I will ask the damaging party to do research on getting a matching used tire, paying for it, and installing it for me. One of the risks is there is a long delay or no follow through, which is a no-go given my safety concerns and only having one car.
No problem. I ship to my residence, though I’m sure you could ship to the shop. Tire showed up in 2 days. Mountign, balancing and recycling should be around $30 (I’m using Discount Tire as reference)
I don’t know if relying on the damaging party to buy a used tire is the best course. Personally, I’d find a used one that meets my criteria and invoice them later w/receipts. You know your vehicle much better than someone else. I wouldn’t want them taking weeks to buy the lowest priced item so they save money only to find out it’s a 6 year old tire that’s been patched with minimal tread remaining. That’s most likely not a “like-kind” to what you had. Keep it simple, make the best decision and invoice them later.
From your newsletter, you are right in that we are misfits when it comes to spending, saving and investing your money compared to everybody else he does not read personal finance sites.
The lady should have paid for one deer tire immediately, Eddie were gracious to not pester her about it for 2 1/2 months. You had to spend $460 more all of you matching tire that you didn’t need to if it wasn’t for the accident. The way I see it, you to split the cost and that’s fair.
If I caused damage, I would’ve been thrilled to just have to pay for what your tire instead of get my insurance involved. I would take a lot of time, and jack up my insurance premiums.
Glad everything worked out and things are no longer awkward!
I would have gone up to her at dropoff and had her Zelle or PayPal me money on the spot. I would have stopd there until she did it.
Yeah, that would have been too awkward for me. But I appreciate you sharing me what you’d do. Just don’t tell Chris, the other commenter who thinks I’m at fault for asking her to replace the tire she damaged.
At the end of the day, the most important thing was that I replace both front tires so I wouldn’t worry about them blowing out with my kids inside. The waiting and bumping into each other 6 or more times just got to a point of being a little preposterous. But at least I was able to write a fun post with some lessons learned!
You did nothing wrong!
Thank you. I appreciate your support. I just felt bad asking her to pay for an accident, since we’ve all had accidents before. Hence, why I didn’t push. My blindspot is just assuming she could afford to pay as an independent school parent, and of course, causing the accident.
Thank you for this post! A dad where we live in NOVA just told us he spent 8K on Taylor Swift tickets and hotel for himself and his daughter. It blew my mind. Then I heard that most people spend at least 10K going to Disney (big discussion on DC101), and those are “average” people. I couldn’t help but think that I’d rather finish my basement and put the money in our house…..maybe I don’t know how to enjoy spending money unless I feel like I’m getting something more tangible ♀️
$8k for a concert is absolutely nuts.
Also don’t understand the $10k for Disney. You can do the same thing for $4k staying off Disney resort and visiting the parks. Yeah its maybe not “quite” as good an experience, but you can do it 2.5x as often (or 2x as often and spend $2k on something else – or save $2k)!
Take cellphone pic of damage and other drivers policy number. Report accident to insurance company ASAP. Not a money issue but a legal issue.
Sam, great work as always. I find it mind boggling that any of your readers don’t think you were saint in this shit-show of a situation. That woman’s behaviour is unconscionable and you took it in stride. We expect you too: you have demonstrated your even-handedness many times and, of course, you are rich, which helps. It doesn’t forgive her manners.
I am reminded of a situation that occured for me years ago, before you could do an on-the-spot e-transfer to another person.
Someone rear ended me “gently” at a stoplight. He wasn’t paying attention. Entirely his fault. We both got out and took at look at my damage. He had smacked my new-ish (but certainly not new) BMW’s bumper nicely, and left some plastic dents. He was mortified and apologetic.
I looked at it and made a call on the spot. I told him something to the effect of: “I know that is superficial. You were careless and need to pay for it but I would never insist on having that bumper replaced and your insurance company is going to rape you. I’ll get a cosmetic fix for it and I’ll be ok with it. So, if you agree, let’s go to the cash machine over their and you can give me $XXX and you’ve made the problem go away. Ok?”
The guy almost cried with happiness. He got to walk away without telling his insurance company or his wife.
In the grand scheme of things, it made absolutely no difference to my life and the problem was solved immediately and very directly.
It’s a good compromise Biggrey. Telling the insurance company will take time, and cause the offending person a lot more money with higher future premiums as well as having to pay the deductible.
So in my situation, I thought her just paying for one tire while I pay for the other tire was fair, easy and quick. I had 2-3 more years left on both of them.
Maybe my Blindspot is that I don’t take money into consideration because I’m so focused on doing the right thing regardless of the cost. If I caused harm to someone else, I will not rest until I make it right. And if the cost was prohibitive, I would go through insurance. If that’s what she wanted to do I would have obliged.
We had a very similar situation with someone hitting my wife a few years back and we did the exact same thing. Everyone was happy & no insurance involved.
Yeah, it’s like getting lawyers involved and going to trial. In a lot of cases, only the lawyers win.
Most small conflicts can be resolved by talking things out as respectful adults and coming to a mutual agreement.
I am like you when it comes to paying off debts. Probably a little obsessive even.
My family knows I have money. I have been asked for a few thousand here and there over the years for various reasons. They call them “loans” when they ask for the money, however I see them as “gifts”. I have absolutely no expectation that they will ever get paid back. If they do, great. If they don’t, fine. Since I think of these as gifts there is no awkwardness about the lack of payment when I see the family members. Writing this reminds me that I have several outstanding “gifts”. LOL
Nice job gifting! Hah. It’s good to not expect any of the loan money back.
And it’s also fascinating to see people borrow money and not pay the money back.
I could never not pay someone back. The debt would eat me up inside and make me feel uncomfortable every day until I paid it off.
I recently put a set of the best performance tires that fit the 19″ wheels on my SUV. Each tire cost less than $250, including taxes/delivery. My local garage mounted/balanced/installed them for $25/tire. I live in a Boston suburb, so I’m certainly getting no bargains. How in the world did you rack up a cost of $437 per tire?! Are you driving something exotic? Or did you waltz into a tire dealer wearing a “Please, rip me off” T-shirt? Or did you actually go to the dealer for tires?!!! (My god man, I thought this blog was about making money, not burning it! I go to my dealer for nearly all service, but tires? No! They’re a commodity with no brand-specific skills needed. That’s like going to a hospital to buy band-aids, ha!)
It’s no wonder the lady hesitated paying. Your cost is nuts. *Plus*, your tires were more than half-way through their life. All expensive tires wear quickly, because you’re paying for performance, not longevity. So 30k miles is the *most* anyone can expect. And if you drive a Tesla or any other luxury electric, you were probably at the very end of their life, due to the insane weight and torque borne by the tires… I’ve read that some aggressive Tesla drivers get only 10k miles on their tires.
And I had to laugh at your attempts to be fair. You “only” charged her for one brand new over-priced tire. But that tire was past its half-life. So she essentially paid for the pair of half-used tires you needed to replace. You didn’t really do her any favor there. You *should* have pro-rated the cost for the wear, like any insurance company would. I’ll give you the fact that it’s best to replace tires in pairs, even though she only damaged one. But admittedly, the damaged tire still ran. It was only your perception that it was dangerous, not a professional opinion. (And judging by your willingness to get ripped off for tire costs, you’re probably not a tire expert.) Still, I’ll let that pass, but I hope you can see from the lady’s perspective that it may be questionable… Clearly you drove away from the accident just fine. To her credit, she never questioned the need for a replacement, or the cost. Then again, that should have tipped you off that she had no financial savvy. She was a victim to literally whatever you said.
I’m glad you didn’t fall for the dealer’s attempt to sell you four tires. If you had, I would have opened up a tire shop near your house, sprinkled the streets with roofing nails, then waited for the money to roll in. (Now *that’s* good investing, ha!)
You failed to mention what kind of car she (or you) was driving. Although sometimes wealthy people drive crappy cars, it would have been at least another clue that she might be in some financial distress.
Here’s a crazy idea… Did you ever consider *asking* the lady if she could afford to pay you, especially as the weeks went by? You tried to make some educated assumptions, which is nicer than nothing, but clearly not enough. So let me answer the question for you: She could *not* afford it.
Sure, her financial struggles might be her own “fault,” not yours. If she was driving a Land Rover, I have much less sympathy for her. But still, I’ve seen good people make continuously bad financial decisions. Well, probably most people. Should wealthy people always support the bad decisions of less-wealthy? Probably not, fully, but it’s all too easy for the wealthy to discount the role of luck in their good fortunes. Not everyone is born with an optimal tool set between their ears, so no matter how hard they try, the smallest mistakes in life are crushing. For example, tapping a rich guy’s tire one day. If you want be a true good guy, return half the money to properly account for the depreciation you forgot to subtract. You will instantly know from her reaction whether and how much more that money means to her than you. Consider it a small expense for your field research. :-)
Lastly, why didn’t you just file an insurance claim??? Unless the laws are very different in your state, there are no “points” or future liability for small claims (under $1,300 the last time I checked, ten years ago). You could have both walked away with no out-of-pocket expense, and she would have been financially unharmed! And the insurance underwriter would understand how much it should cost to replace tires too.
Hey, I’m truly sorry for being so blunt. I had a strong reaction here. I’m actually a fan of your writing. And in this story, you’re clearly someone who wants to be fair, even generous. But if you ever again wonder if you’re living in a bubble, don’t bother thinking about it too long. You are.
Love your comment. Thank you!
Not sure why my tires are so expensive, but they are. Here’s a quote from Tire Rack for $460 each, which matches all prices. If you have a suggestion on where I can get the tire cheaper, please share! Everybody has said I should get the same tire with same tread to match. I’m all down with saving money. 19″ tires are much cheaper than 22″ tires btw.
There might be misconception about how I asked. We just discussed what an agreeable solution would be, as she was embarrassed by having hit my car. I didn’t demand anything. We talked it over and she agreed to replace one tire without hesitation. She said it was the least she could do, especially since I had to now find a tire dealer, get it changed, and spend several hours of my time.
So by agreeing to pay for one tire, I just assumed she could afford it, and I didn’t bother her about it. I would have waited 4.5 months, until the end of the school year and then followed up. And if she didn’t pay, then so be it.
Yes, I can see how I can come across as a bad person to ask to have my cut tire replaced. But I care about the safety of my passengers. If she wasn’t willing to fix a wrong, I would have fixed it anyway since I only have one car and care about safety.
Tell me about your world, given you say you don’t live in a bubble. What do you do in Boston, what type of SUV do you drive, and how would you have deal with this awkward situation? Thanks!
Thanks for the kind reply, especially considering my post. I’m glad you took it in stride. 22″ inch tires are huge. I thought my 19″ tires were big, and therefore expensive. So no, you didn’t get ripped off. (I should have seen that mistake coming, ouch. Sorry!) On the other hand, is it the lady’s fault that you chose such an expensive car? That is probably a good topic for a philosophy class, ha.
To answer your questions, I’m in software. I do well. But I wasn’t born into it… I was the first in my family to go to college, etc. I drive a Mazda. I paid cash. I could certainly afford more. I previously owned a BMW Z3. I bought it used and sold it for barely a loss 18 months later, so that wasn’t too bad. But I was shocked at the cost of replacing its thermostat. At least 3x what it would cost for a non-luxury brand, and it lasted 1/3 as long. That’s a 9x differential. The financial aggravation wasn’t worth it to me. Besides, the Z3 is a difficult car to be a daily driver… Its manual transmission only shines when the gas pedal is floored. Otherwise, it’s a lurch-y ride. Especially in Boston traffic. I’m off-topic. But if someone damaged my thermostat, I’d feel a little funny asking them to pay 3x more than average to cover my flamboyance.
I never claimed I don’t live in a bubble. I do too. I just wasn’t born in one, and much of my social circle is definitely outside the bubble. So my perception is a *little* clearer, I think, I hope. But still I often make similar mistakes, assuming everyone can afford what I consider “small” costs. I am often reminded when I learn how much of those “little” costs live on other people’s credit cards, for a long time, if not forever.
Some of it is their fault. But then again, they never had good role models. Public school teaches nothing about finances! So all they have to reason with is that if everyone else seems to afford things, it seems that they should too. They just don’t know that a few people are “rich,” and the rest are in debt. Very few seem to have a clear perspective. Personally, I will never have a negative net worth again. Yet 99%(?) of people with negative net worth truly can’t imagine getting out from under that debt, so they struggle to make the right decisions. The rules are stacked against them. It is truly hopeless.
You know how to invest. But most(?) people think amassing a meager saving account is the best goal. Meanwhile, they’re losing 25% interest on card payments, while paying off their 6% student loans. Because it seems to make sense, and no one they trust tells them differently. At the risk of getting political, Trump sold a tax change to the 99% that mostly only benefited the 1%. The financial education hill is steep indeed.
I know lab technicians with 4-yr degrees who work full time in Boston hospitals. Some commute 2 hours each way because they can’t afford to live any closer. So, much of their housing “savings” goes into lost time, car wear and tear, more babysitter costs, etc. The system is “rigged” in the sense that the CEOs now make over 400x what an employee makes. It didn’t used to be that way. I think it was more like 20x for a long time. It’s easy to despise the poor decisions of others, but wow, the income curve is so sloped, an average hard worker is just screwed these days. It’s much easier to stay rich than to break out of a net worth hole.
I got “rich” by working hard, sure, but there was a lot of luck too. And I had to leave corporate America to do it. That’s a lonely and risky path. Any random event could have derailed me. Now I’m set. I can maintain a typical portfolio and cruise… No effort, no risk, for decades. Is that fair? I honestly don’t know.
I do get mad at lazy people. But it’s hard to watch average people suffer and struggle just for being average. The system is a bit too tilted right now. I think that’s where my visceral reaction to your story came from.
It’s always interesting to see people who have above-average reactions to topics and posts which I think are measured. Maybe there’s something deeper inside you or something that happened to you that caused the reaction?
There is no fault of the lady by what type of car I bought. I’m not following your logic. We are free to purchase whatever we want. But we should also make right and fix the things that we damage. It is the honorable way.
I hope you understand that I could have driven my tires for two or three years longer no problem. Because she cut my right front tire, I was forced to pay $460 for a new left front tire 2-3 years sooner than I needed to, in order to match a new front right tire we agreed for her to pay.
Sometimes it is useful to find clarity by exploring an idea to its absurd extremes. (This is how engineers are trained. Maybe philosophers too?) So, if you will, imagine that I am a good ol’ fashioned oil baron, who commissioned a custom car, with custom one-of-a-kind tires hand-carved by a famous Italian from fossilized rubber trees recently discovered under a pyramid in Egypt. Each tire cost me $10M… A mere day’s profit from one of my wells. Now, I park it in front of your house, legally, maybe while visiting your neighbor. A few minutes later, you accidentally slash a tire with your Toro turbo weed wacker while attacking a dandelion that was stubbornly emerging from a crack in the curbing. You are clearly at fault. How much do you “owe” me?
I pay for car insurance in case we hit someone’s Ferrari. I assume they will try to get the money from me rather than saying, oh you just need to pay the amount repairing a $20k car would cost… Insurance for injuring people is compulsory and I don’t bother insuring our car for damage to it any more as it is worth so little (less than 1/1000 of our net worth).
$49k (not $20k) was just a thought experiment, where collision liability was capped at $49k for a total wreck, pro-rated for age/wear, and semi-proportional for any parts. It would protect you from higher liabilities, so *you* at least could afford to drop that collision insurance as well! But then of course you’d have to assume the risks of someone totaling *your* Ferrari. But as you’ve already figured out for the “comprehensive coverage” (your car) portion, it’s cheaper for you to absorb the risk. Overall, I think the only real losers would be the insurance companies, and related lawyers. Both are mostly (not always) drags on American prosperity anyway.
Chris, you are hilarious! You think all tires cost the same and Sam should put on 19″ tires on his 22″ wheels? You remind me of a child who closes their eyes and thinks others can’t see them as a result. You’re way too self-centered. Hello, different tires cost different amounts.
You’d actually be a great person to take advantage of given you don’t believe people should be responsible for their actions. Let me bash your car, squat in your house, and spit in your food without any consequences.
Let’s feel sorry for the lady driving a nice car who pays private school tuition for not being able to afford a tire she cut.
Thanks for giving me a chuckle.
How fun are the comments?! They bring me so much joy.
I try not to presume anything about someone’s financials, no matter the car she drove or the tuition of the school. My main goal was just fixing the tire and being safe.
My takeaway is that we are all different. I would have paid for the one new tire replacement ASAP. It takes time to fix. But not everybody has the same viewpoint, and I must accept it. More harmony this way.
Hi Derek. I can appreciate that your energy was as angry as mine, ha. Anyway, please read my reply to Financial Samurai’s response. In addition, please note that I don’t think the author has mentioned what kind of car the lady was driving. And some poor students get free tuition to private schools. So we can’t assume anything. But I still think the clues lean towards her being in a much tougher spot than the author.
Regarding responsibility for ones actions, there is a philosophical question. Should a poor(?) person be responsible to reimiburse a rich person’s extravagant choices? Maybe there should be set/flat values for car damage. A tire’s value could be set at say $150. If you decide to use tires that cost $450, well that is your risk, not society’s. Car accidents happen to rich and poor alike. And many states are “no fault” because each party usually shares some of the blame and it is impossible to prove otherwise. (Did the author *really* park as safely as he could… No way to know.) In the end, should a poor person subsidize someone else’s expensive choices? What do you think?
Before you answer, consider what if you hit my car… and I had just traded my Mazda for a $1M super-car, with $2,000 tires?
So you’re saying that asking to replace one damaged tire, even though Sam could’ve driven it for two or three more years, is unfair?
The accident caused Sam to pay an extra $460 for a matching tire that didn’t need to be replaced if it hadn’t been for the woman who ran into Sam’s car. For safety reasons, Sam was forced to spend $460 for a new matching tire he didn’t need to if it wasn’t for the accident. So having the woman pay for one (half the cost), given she caused the damage, is totally reasonable.
I swear, it’s so easy to get ahead in this world thanks to illogical and crazy people like you.
Let’s not get personal… “Crazy” is a relative term. :-)
The lady is at fault. She owes. No question. I’m just saying that it may not be fair that the lady has to pay for the Samurai’s arguably extreme financial choices. I’m pretty sure that back when you were learning to drive (i.e. not really very long ago?) there was literally no such thing as 22″ passenger car tires. Heck, when I was a teen, 15″ tires were reserved for luxury cars, if I remember correctly. Even 17″ tires are a relatively new phenomenon. So for sure, 22″ tires are an extreme. If the lady had 22″ tires too, then sure I guess they are financial peers, and she deserves to pay in full. But there’s an imbalance in expecting one person to pay for another person’s extreme choices.
Now, if the lady went over to the Samurai’s house and broke his super-expensive custom windows on purpose, then she owes fully for them. But to damage something that the Samurai risked putting on a public road?… It just seems that there is some financial risk that he should assume, for what is over and above what a “normal” tire would cost.
If that still seems crazy, please see the “absurd” test (with $10M tires) I just replied with to the Samurai… Maybe that thought experiment will shed some better light on the problem I’m trying to convey.
What do you think the standard tire cost and car cost should be, thereby determining the limit to how much someone should pay if they damage the car? It seems arbitrary, but I’d love to hear your analysis compared to the reality of the way things are.
For example, the average new car price is about $49,000 and the average used car prices about $35,000. So maybe any car worth a dollar more than those costs should not be paid for even if you caused the damage?
Good question. In my defense, I have never considered this problem until reading your story, so my logic is still raw.
First, whatever limit is applied would be a tier… Damages up to that point should be a full liability of course. But above that, nothing more. It might actually work nicely if people were liable only for the first $49,000 (to use your suggest value). Anything over that is the owner’s own responsibility. They could optionally buy insurance to cover that difference of course.
That’s partly how the system works already, in a way. You have to insure your own car, not the other driver’s car. (Except of course for “uninsured driver’s” coverage, but let’s ignore that for now.) And your rates vary based on the value of your car, in addition to how “dangerous” (powerful, heavy, etc.) it is.
I wonder how the dynamic would change if a totaled car is never more than $49,000 in damages to the “at fault” person or their insurer. It might put more responsibility on the purchaser of any car above $49k, which might be more fair. Maybe it would reduce the costs for average insurers, and increase the profits for luxury insurers, while lowering rates for average drivers. Hmm…. I don’t know… Fun problem.
Chris, as you think about the problem more deeply, I think you’ll come to the conclusion that setting an arbitrary limit for when people who do damage are no longer liable doesn’t work or make sense in America. Maybe in China or Russia, but not America.
Personal responsibility is fundamental in our country. If we cause damage, we must rectify the situation.
Last question: are you married with kids? I ask because safety transporting them is one of my top responsibilities as a man with a strong Provider’s Clock. So if you don’t have kids, perhaps it’s harder to empathize with my viewpoint.
I do not question your decision to repair the tire, or even to replace both. I would do the same. I fully empathize with you there.
I am as American as the U.S. progressive tax system, which may be an apt analogy for my point of view here.
In America, an accident is not the same as a crime. A crime gets full restitution. An accident is more nuanced.
Intentional damage should indeed be fully compensated. If the lady intentionally rammed your car, she owes 100%, plus criminal penalties.
However, an accident in public is not the same. Consider this: If a waiter at a restaurant drops a cup that seriously damages the innards of your $100,000 Rolex, are they responsible to make you whole? No US court would find in your favor. Why? Because you also bear some responsibility for bringing that Rolex into harms way… by wearing it in public. If it was a Timex, maybe you’d win 100%, because that watch is a reasonable thing to risk.
Feel free to continue attacking my point of view, but please consider that watch example. Do you disagree with my prediction of a court’s ruling? And please reply to my “reductio ad absurdum” thought experiment, where your weed-eater damages my exotic car. Your reply, either way, would end my debate.
I could question how the lady could damage your tire without damaging the fender, but clearly that was only possible because you cranked your steering wheel to such an extreme that your 22″ wheel protruded into the lady’s right of way. Did you consider that? Would that make you responsible, at all?
Also, you stated that you parked on the left curb. Was it a one-way road? Otherwise, it is illegal to park that way, specifically because it causes accidents.
I’m not really trying to catch you in a gotcha moment. I’m just further making my point that an accident in public spaces is rarely black and white, and certainly not the same as a criminal act. That is why liability gets treated differently. In America.
Yes, one way road. I curb my tires as advised to prevent car from rolling back. There was 80 feet of parking in front of me so there was no need to cut so close.
I would like to say that you are right and I am wrong in asking for the woman to pay for one new tire that she damaged. Let’s leave it at that. I appreciate your arguments and making me see the light.
Now that that’s settled, ca you answer my question on whether you are married with children? I feel that all parents have to take their kids to school really value the importance of safety. So I’m thinking maybe you do not have children or take them to school, which is why you had such a visceral reaction to me asking the woman to pay for the damages. I think this would make for an interesting new topic.
Thanks!
Yes, wife and kids. I drive to/from school at least 10 times per week… And it’s 10 minutes of parental driving chaos each time. (Although if I run a little late, like just 5 minutes, the roads are clear. I proposed to the principal that stop/start times could be staggered by just 5 minutes per grade to aleviate the gridlock, but he cowered on about teacher’s unions, blah.)
My visceral reaction was based on your original premise: the financial expectations. I do not question your parental instincts, at all. I share them. I would replace the tires too. I just thought the price was possibly unreasonable.
Regarding who’s right/wrong between you and I, that’s too extreme. (And your feigned acquiesence is toothless, since you didn’t promise any change.) Please remember, I agree that the lady owes you, something. So my parental status is really inmaterial here. I’m reacting to your story’s awkward financial situation only.
I like Madison’s suggestion! Even if you still preferred to buy new tires, the price of equivalently-worn used tire(s), plus labor, would have been a more-appropriate reimbursement. Then you’d have made a *friend* at school. Instead, you now have mutual-avoidance situation. :-(
However it’s not too late to fix it. Talk to her. Get to know her, a little. If she’s wealthy and just ditzy or inconsiderate, then keep her money, I don’t care. If she’s struggling, then refund her up to the used tire+labor value.
The crux of your original story is that you seek an understanding of what happened. You feel that something was off and you want help settling your conscience. You don’t really know if that feeling is your fault or hers. The answers you seek lie with her, not with me or your cronies here. Good luck.
Oh, and I applaud your safe parking skills… Few people know or remember to use that trick when parking on an incline. Although, please consider cranking those huge wheels a little less in the future. ;-p
Good to know! Then my thesis is off about different emotions when having a family or not.
There’s actually no avoidance or awkwardness at all when I see her anymore. It’s normal morning salutations. It seems like she feels great for settling what she agreed to pay.
When the accident happened, we spent a total of maybe 2 minutes coming up with a solution after inspecting the damages. And we both agreed to the solution as we then rushed our kids to school on time. And that was that. Now, after much discussion, if it happens again, I will ask the damaging party to do research on getting a matching used tire, paying for it, and installing it for me. One of the risks is there is a long delay or no follow through, which is a no-go given my safety concerns and only having one car.
Have you ever experienced an awkward money situation? If so, how did you solve it?
I think you’ll like this post as well, with a lot of examples you may disagree with. I’d love to hear you argue against my viewpoint here too: Personal Responsibility Is Important: How Did We Get So Entitled?
Btw, I added a pic in the post where I curved the tire and gave a visualization of the lady might have seen as she was pulling in front first. There were actually no cars in front as the picture shows.
We felt fortunate she somehow only was able to hit and cut my right front tire, and not the body.
I think you would agree my curbed tires were not causing an obstruction.
Your comment demonstrates the “uncomfortable truth” Sam refers to. You think the lady shouldn’t have to pay for a new tire.
But personal finance enthusiasts are more thoughtful than the majority of people, including you. They take into consideration the TIME it takes to replace the tire. Time is money, and time can be very expensive for some who make a lot. They also take into consideration the unnecessary stress the lady caused Sam and family. Hence, we are more than willing to pay to replace one new tire. It’s the least we can do.
However, people like you don’t take into consideration the time and stress caused by your actions. And just want to replace the minimum. That is a selfish way of thinking. As a result, you end up less liked and less wealthy because you get passed up for raises and promotions.
Don’t be like most people. Be thoughtful. If you caused damage, don’t do the minimum. Do the maximum to compensate for what you have done.
Regarding, “If you caused damage, don’t do the minimum. Do the maximum to compensate for what you have done.”
Well, *I* certainly would try to do as you preach. Why? Because of exactly one reason: I can probably afford to. (Why? Maybe because I make plenty of friends and money by being good at seeing other people’s perspective, not just my own.)
Please read my goofy “weed wacker” thought experiment. (Search for the word “wacker” to find it.) How much would you owe me if you were Sam in that scenario? Also, please read my response containing the word “Rolex”… Imagine you are the waiter in that scenario. Can you agree that your “financial religion” hits the limits of reality in some situations? I think *maybe* the lady in Sam’s story had a similar situation. So that is the motivation for my responses… Not because I selfishly want to hit your car and get away with it. (Although after your unwarranted personal attacks, it does cross my mind.)
While I fully agree that time is money, car insurance makes no payments for the victim’s time or inconvenience, as far as I understand. A rental car is the max. Just like lost hours on jury duty… It’s just part of life. Your hours aren’t free, but in the case of accidents, they are not reimbursable either.
If however the car damage was due to a crime (i.e. intentional), then you could account for time and stress. Although it may feel like an accident is a personal crime against you/me, it really isn’t.
Unfortunately Lucina, the world does not owe us anything to keep us rich, or to compensate for our valuable time simply because an accident happens. *If* the offender has the means, they will likely graciously pay what’s fair, as you/I would. (Unless it’s a certain presidential candidate… Then good luck getting a penny! C’mon, regardless of your politics, that’s funny, right?)
Regarding, “You think the lady shouldn’t have to pay for a new tire.” Well, that’s half right. I think she shouldn’t pay for a *new* tire, because the damaged tire was not new. Hey, if the tire coincidentally failed that day all on its own, the manufacturer’s warranty would *not* provide a new tire either. They would pro-rate the value per the expected life, and pay Sam that difference. No allowance for time or inconvenience or stress either. Why should we demand more from the lady?
You have a very selfish way of looking at things. And/Or you are cheap and will cause yourself far more trouble and money in the future as a result.
Your point of view will change if someone caused you trouble. And I pray you don’t cause anybody else trouble and act so cheaply toward them.
BTW, not everybody drives with the same 19-inch tires as you. Another signal of self-centered you are to think everybody does. I feel bad for your wife and kids.
Let me be clear Lucinda. I would pay generously for any damages I cause, just like you would.
But if someone who caused minor damage to my car showed signs of financial distress, I would try to minimize their liability, not maximize it. And I’d try even harder if it was someone I know, e.g. if our kids are classmates. That is what Sam attempted. I just disagreed with his calculations, that’s all.
Nickel and diming someone where you caused damage is not that way. You do not value someone’s time, which means you are self-centered. Learn to give more than you receive.
Let me be even clearer:
If *I* damaged someone’s tire, I would indeed pay the full cost, *including* time and inconvenience. JUST LIKE YOU KEEP ADVISING. Because I am lucky enough to afford that courtesy.
However, if someone else damaged *my* tire, I would “nickel and dime” *myself*, if the person seemed financially distressed. Not everyone has the luck to be rich. Some people have to be teachers and social workers. I do not expect them to subsidize the *extra* cost of my abnormally large tires.
Especially if I cranked my wheel to an extreme, forcing my huge tire to stick out several inches beyond the body of my car, where it could be clipped by another driver. Black tires on black pavement. Which is what Sam did. Sam wasn’t necessarily “wrong” to do so, but it was certainly a contributing factor to the accident. Please remember that his side mirror was not damaged when the lady drove past… So his huge tire must have been sticking out a lot!
How would you feel if you were on a plane and you tripped in the aisle because someone left their foot sticking out. Would you feel that you were 100% at fault for not seeing the foot? Or would you consider suing the foot’s owner, the airline, and anyone else for your distress?
My point is that accidents in public are rarely one-sided, even in the case of a parked car. So, since Sam was in a financially comfortable position to nickel and dime himself, and the lady may have been financially distressed, and Sam may have contributed slightly to the incident, I feel that a more limited reimbursement may have been more appropriate.
I believe I’m suggesting actions for Sam (or myself) that are the polar opposite of self-centered.
Curbing your wheels is bad? I think victim blaming is bad. Sounds like you easily discriminate against people for being different. Did you not read there was 80 feet of space of free parking ahead?
Having a scarcity mindset seems to help me blend in better. Intellectually, when my mind says “you don’t have enough”, yet we are in the top 5% for NW by age, i know we have more than most, it just takes some mindfulness to really click. Having money stress seems to be relatable to others, so the conversation ends at the stressor rather than the solution.
I am reminded of a situation where I lent $1000 to a friend to help him purchase some equipment for his business. He asked about a repayment schedule, and I foolishly said, “Whenever you can.” I’m like you when it comes to that – I can’t focus on anything else until a debt is paid. It was my mistake assuming that everyone operates that way.
Several months later, and after seeing Facebook posts of him and his wife on expensive vacations several times with only a small part of the loan repaid, things were getting awkward.
Fortunately, I was bailed out when my mother-in-law needed help moving from Florida to Ohio. I offered him the job of driving the moving truck to pay off the remainder of the balance, which he quickly accepted. Our friendship remains very much intact, and I learned a valuable lesson about lending money to friends!
Wow you were pretty patient with her. I would have been so frustrated every time I saw her! I feel so guilty even if I owe someone $1 let alone hundreds of dollars!
Man, that is an awkward situation. I would definitely try to avoid you if I hadn’t paid yet. But I would have paid ASAP after you sent me the receipt.
It’s good that you changed both front tires to match the treadwear for safety issues. I don’t think people realize how important this is.
Also, a car striking your tire could create alignment issues as well, which may cost another $100-$200 to fix.
So all in all, I think you handled the situation well, and were generous. Some people freak the heck out and start yelling and getting upset.
Oh, it’s also weird how someone would think you are the victim for just asking what someone broke of yours to get fixed.
People need to take responsibility for their actions and do the right thing.
Just chiming in to say I think you handled the situation admirably. We can’t expect everyone else to handle a situation the same way we would. You offered the woman compassion while simultaneously holding your boundary. Well done.
She should pay, if they could afford to pay the tuition one way or the other, there is no excuse to delay paying you back. Her problems are not yours after all.
I am reminded of the time that I bought a school fundraiser item from my boss at the time. I did not have the cash on me and told him I would pay him back, it was $40 or about that much. I completely forgot to pay him back and he came by my cubicle 2-3 months later asking for the money. We BOTH were visibly embarrassed by the situation! UGH.
Doh. Hope that wasn’t too much of a career-limiting move! It’s hard to ask for money that’s owed, which is one reason why I didn’t for 2.5 months despite seeing her 6 times.
Good story, but I wonder if she eventually paid up? Sure, our financial literacy, resources and perspectives could have been different from yours, but why on earth didn’t she pay?
Not sure what to say, my friend from Uganda.
Maybe her hesitation was because you were asking for a bonanza, which isn’t how our legal system works. My extensive years of watching Judge Judy have taught me that she damaged a single used tire and would have been responsible for the value of that used tire (as it was just before the accident), not the cost of a new one, and certainly not the cost of two new ones. You told her you wanted her to pay for two new tires, but because you were a nice guy you would accept just one brand new tire. She owed you a couple hundred bucks at best.
Definitely possible John, asking for a bonanza equals replacing the damaged tire. She never suggested that solution or compromise. Instead, she agreed to paying for one new tire replacement.
If she was willing to find a similarly used replacement tire of the same brand and tread, and spend the time to get the tires installed. I would’ve gladly accepted $200.
I spent about an hour researching, calling, identifying, and then going to the shop to replace the tires, and then I had to wait two hours to pick up the car. This would have been unnecessary if the driver had just parked further away from me given there was 80 feet of space ahead.
Spending this extra time can really be costly.
Bonanza for asking the person to replace the tire they damaged? Are you a child who has no notion of responsibility and time? Stop being so selfish and entitled. Causing harm and wasted time to someone should be made up.
I would have been so embarrassed I cut Sam’s tire I would have gladly paid for two.
It’s selfish to cause someone an inconvenience and then haggle on how much to pay. Spending time to fix the tire is worth a lot.
Hey Sam great post, coming across as out of touch or elitist is something new I am working on as it became apparent in an odd way recently. It came about in a new acquittance to friendship sort of situation and one day the topic ended up shifting to car loans and I spoke about not having consumer debt or payments of any kind. It was obviously a big deal to this person who made it clear that “that wasn’t possible”. I simply told him it is and his response often just became “well that’s cause your rich” to which I made it aware to the person that he makes more income but it all comes down to budgeting. After that it kinda just went downhill that I simply had to have a better childhood, rich parents or XYZ and that’s the only reason he wasn’t in a similar stable financial position (and had nothing to do that he had over 100% car to income ratio). My wife and I discuss finances or financial topics daily and are well informed and so to us being financial educated, having measurable goals and being financial stable are just part of our lives but after trying to drum up this new friendship it is easy to see that many people can quickly see it as out of touch.
On the bright side, I have slowly still been talking to this new friend and I am happy to say I think they may be coming around as they are asking more questions and talking less in a victim mentality and I am hoping I may have an opportunity soon to give them a copy of BTNT!
Sounds like progress!
The situation is akin to raising your hand in class to learn. If you show too much interest in learning, your peers may ostracize you and make fun of you.
I’ve had a couple of awkward money situations come up. The most awkward was when a friend of mine was losing her condo to foreclosure. She wasn’t totally irresponsible with money in general, but she made some choices that I wouldn’t have, and when her husband lost his job, they didn’t have enough emergency savings to get through. This was around the time of the housing collapse. So the good news (for them) is that they were able to stop paying their mortgage and the bank took ages to get around to actually foreclosing. I think they basically got two years of no mortgage/no rent out of it. When the condo finally foreclosed, they were approached by the buyer and offered cash for keys to move out. They would get more money if they were able to move out quickly, so I offered to let them stay at my house for a month or two while they found a new place. They agreed, got paid, and moved into my house.
My friend offered to pay rent, and I thanked her, but declined. I said that my goal was for them to be able to get on their feet and move out as quickly as possible, so charging them rent would have actually slowed that process down.
It was so stressful. I am used to living alone with my two dogs, and having an additional three people (their son came, too) and an additional dog in the house was a lot. Their son broke the blinds in one room (an accident), they broke my lawnmower trying to help with chores (another accident), my kitchen was always in use because they cooked constantly. I gritted my teeth, spent a lot of time at the gym or just hiding out in my bedroom, and starting counting down the two months.
Christmas came the next month, and even though they had “no money,” they bought their son a brand new (not luxury, but not super cheap, either) guitar. She said she just felt too bad for him to miss out on a Christmas. I said I was pretty sure he would understand (he was 18, for crying out loud) that their family was having a temporary struggle and that Christmas might need to be more modest this year, but she insisted that she wouldn’t deprive him.
At the end of the two months, there was no moving activity. I asked my friend what the status was. She said they had applied at some places, but hadn’t been approved anywhere yet. I gently reminded her that my offer was for a month or two, not indefinitely, and that it had been two months. I said it wasn’t personal, but I’m an introverted person and it was just hard having three additional people and an additional dog in the house. She said they would ramp up their efforts. I said okay, and just keep me posted.
My friend was kind of distant after that, but I understood. About a week later, there was a small moving truck at the house and they were loading up their stuff. I said “oh, I didn’t know you had found a place.” She said they just found one and were able to move right away, so they were going. I said okay and offered to help load the truck, but she said they were just about finished.
They moved out and I barely heard from them again. Her other son got married a few months later, and they invited me to the wedding, but it was super awkward. I was basically trying to act like nothing happened. I gave them a nice gift and even ran out to get more beverages when they ran dry, but my friend was pretty stiff and distant, so we hardly talked. After that, I never heard from her again.
Her husband called me a few months later, saying he was selling solar panels now, and he wanted to know if I was interested. I said I wasn’t really in the market for them at the moment, but thank you. He said “if you order them, I bet I could get [friend] to come over so you can hang out again. I know things got awkward between you two before and this would probably thin the ice.” I asked him why things got so awkward, and he said “well, you basically kicked us out with no warning.” I said that I had given them a 1-2 month timeline when they first moved in, and they just went past that without even talking to me about it, and then they moved abruptly without even discussing it. He said his wife didn’t see it that way.
Anyway, I declined. The last thing I needed was to try to rekindle a friendship by bribing her husband with a solar panel contract. We haven’t spoken since.
Oh gosh, so awkward and disappointing.
Your situation reminds me of a great saying,” no good deed goes unpunished.”
People will take advantage of other people’s kindness, and not be appreciative. It is really weird and impossible to reconcile. Even though she should be thankful for your two months of tiredness, she is resentful. And that is just how life is. Got to unfortunately cut ties.
You don’t need ungrateful friends like that. I bet they would still be at your home if nothing was said.
You are better off not having such a ‘friend’ in your life at any rate. I would not let family or friends live with me or stay in any of my rentals.
FS:
Great post, as usual interesting contrasting the FI community with the mainstream. For some strange reason, I too like to observe how others view and handle their money/finances.
Love this: “ But before then, assimilate with the masses. Be patient. Your time to unleash the Kraken will eventually come!” Reminds me of Cool Hand Luke.
Money is a strange thing (can’t remember who to credit): it’s like oxygen; when you have enough you don’t care. When you don’t, it’s all you think about.
I’ve been an engineer for 30 yrs and make good money. I always assumed I’d work until 60. Mainly b/c that’s what society “taught” me. Also, I actually enjoy work and believe we’re designed to work and add value. We need to make progress towards our goals to feel fulfilled.
Keep up the great work!
Thanks for sharing James. The oxygen analogy is so true. We take for granted the money that we have until it’s gone.
It’s part of the reason why I wrote the post, “Earning less passive income has made my life better.”
We all definitely need to work in some capacity, and find some purpose in life.
I really appreciate your empathy for her, I can imagine someone feeling more entitled in this situation but you handled it with grace and prevented it from being a shameful experience. Thank you for sharing how you handled this tricky situation.
Thanks Jen. It was a yucky situation indeed. I just wanted some type of fair outcome because we’re all busy people as well.