Craigslist is such a fun place to surf and save money. I've sold a lot of junk, found some last-minute tennis partners, and even purchased some cool retro Air Jordans on the site. There's a sale everyday on Craigslist, hence why would you ever pay full retail?
You can even get massively entertained in the Personals Section! No “Woman Seeking Man” post is funnier than the one you are about to read (originally posted circa 2007). The great thing about the post is that it's all about personal finance!
Thoughts That Crossed My Mind When Reading:
Can't live with them, can't live without them.
Does she really think her first post wasn't a little over the top?
Wow, she is a woman who knows what she wants! Sexy.
So this is where gold diggers roam. Must take notes.
Damn, that guy is funny, but what a prick, no wonder why I didn't major in finance.
KAPOW, good counter, but why does she have to talk about receding hairlines, that hurts.
Is the counter response someone else? “She” writes a lot, and needs to type shorter paragraphs.
She has a trader boyfriend already! What's she doing seeking more men?!
Hmmm, better find a way to make more than $500K+ a year!
Enjoy and happy first weekend of the decade!
WOMAN SEEKING MAN: “What Am I Doing Wrong?”
Okay, I’m tired of beating around the bush. I’m a beautiful (spectacularly beautiful) 25 year old girl. I’m articulate and classy.
I’m not from New York. I’m looking to get married to a guy who makes at least half a million a year. I know how that sounds, but keep in mind that a million a year is middle class in New York City, so I don’t think I’m overreaching at all.
Are there any guys who make 500K or more on this board? Any wives? Could you send me some tips? I dated a business man who makes average around 200 – 250k. But, that’s where I seem to hit a roadblock. $250,000 won't get me to Central Park West. I know a woman in my yoga class who was married to an investment banker and lives in Tribeca, and she’s not as pretty as I am, nor is she a great genius. So what is she doing right? How do I get to her level?
Here are my questions specifically:
- Where do you single rich men hang out? Give me specifics- bars, restaurants, gyms
- What are you looking for in a mate? Be honest guys, you won?t hurt my feelings
- Is there an age range I should be targeting (I'm 25)?
- Why are some of the women living lavish lifestyles on the upper east side so plain? I've seen really plain jane? boring types who have nothing to offer married to incredibly wealthy guys. I've seen drop dead gorgeous girls in singles bars in the east village. What?s the story there?
- Jobs I should look out for? Everyone knows – lawyer, investment banker, doctor. How much do those guys really make? And where do they hang out? Where do the hedge fund guys hang out?
- How you decide marriage vs. just a girlfriend? I am looking for MARRIAGE ONLY
Please hold your insults – I'm putting myself out there in an honest way. Most beautiful women are superficial; at least I'm being up front about it. I wouldn't be searching for these kind of guys if I wasn't able to match them – in looks, culture, sophistication, and keeping a nice home and hearth.
PostingID: 432279810
MAN'S RESPONSE TO WOMAN:
I read your posting with great interest and have thought meaningfully about your dilemma. I offer the following analysis of your predicament. Firstly, I'm not wasting your time, I qualify as a guy who fits your bill; that is I make more than $500K per year. That said here's how I see it.
Your offer, from the prospective of a guy like me, is plain and simple a crappy business deal. Here's why. Cutting through all the B.S., what you suggest is a simple trade: you bring your looks to the party and I bring my money. Fine, simple. But here's the rub, your looks will fade and my money will likely continue into perpetuity…in fact, it is very likely that my income increases but it is an absolute certainty that you won't be getting any more beautiful!
So, in economic terms you are a depreciating asset and I am an earning asset. Not only are you a depreciating asset, your depreciation accelerates! Let me explain, you're 25 now and will likely stay pretty hot for the next 5 years, but less so each year. Then the fade begins in earnest. By 35 stick a fork in you!
So in Wall Street terms, we would call you a trading position, not a buy and hold…hence the rub…marriage. It doesn't make good business sense to “buy you” (which is what you're asking) so I'd rather lease. In case you think I'm being cruel, I would say the following. If my money were to go away, so would you, so when your beauty fades I need an out. It's as simple as that. So a deal that makes sense is dating, not marriage.
Separately, I was taught early in my career about efficient markets. So, I wonder why a girl as “articulate, classy and spectacularly beautiful” as you has been unable to find your sugar daddy. I find it hard to believe that if you are as gorgeous as you say you are that the $500K wasn't found you, if not only for a tryout.
By the way, you could always find a way to make your own money and then we wouldn't need to have this difficult conversation.
With all that said, I must say you're going about it the right way. Classic “pump and dump.” I hope this is helpful, and if you want to enter into some sort of lease, let me know.
WOMAN'S COUNTER RESPONSE TO MAN! (Is this the same woman responding?)
Dear Sir,
I must confess that I was somewhat taken aback upon reading your email. Indeed, it has taken some time for me to sufficiently recuperate from my surprise. Lest your confidence quickly inflate for little reason (as we know is the predisposition for Wall St. types), allow me to hasten to reassure you that the source of my surprise was neither your candor nor the accuracy of your perception. Indeed, it is your “claimed” success in light of your poor grasp of economics which has me baffled. If the standards required to meet with financial success on Wall St. have sunk so low, perhaps I should indeed “make my own money”, except for the fact that the effort/reward ratio is far too high for my liking – especially when so many of your ilk have displayed a far more cogent grasp of market realities than you have.
By now you are likely scratching your ever-vanishing hairline in confusion, so allow me to elaborate, dear man. To build some credibility I will tell you a bit more about yourself. Though you did not mention the details of your occupation, it is clear that you are an investment banker and not a trader, as any good trader would understand that human courtships are based upon a semi-efficient open market, and not an investment banking cartel. However, your inability to grasp the realities of the dating market is not surprising, given that you have successfully employed the tools of collusion and market manipulation rather that true acumen in your supposed wealth generation.
If your grasp of finance were not a minority partner with your ego, you would realize that the “outflows” associated with my depreciating “assets” are quite certain, and therefore subject to a low discount rate when determining their present value. In addition, though your concept of economics evidently failed to move past the 1950s, advancement in plastic surgery is not subject to the same limitation. Thus, with some additional capital expenditure, the overall lifetime of “outflows” generated by these assets is greatly increased. Sad that Ashton Kutcher has demonstrated understanding of the female asset class which you, in all of your financial “wisdom”, have not.
You, on the other hand, are, given the uncertainty of the Wall St. job market, more of an inflation-indexed junk bond with an underwater nested call option. Though you may argue that you are more of an equity investment, my monetary minimums required from you do not change, and if you are unable to pay them, I will liquidate you without the benefit of a chapter 11, just as you would me.
Because your outflows are so much more uncertain with respect to mine, I require additional compensation in the form of a underwater nested call option on your future assets. I say underwater because, even taking into account the value of your junk bond coupon payment to me, the value of my “outflow” is in excess of the market price of your equity (which is quite low due to its riskiness associated with your poor grasp of finance and my existing claim upon your junk bond coupon).
I must thank you though for raising the question, despite the reputation cost of subjecting your weak logic to such widespread scrutiny. This took either considerable courage or ignorance on your part- and we'll give you the benefit of doubt, just this once. My current boyfriend (a trader who lives in Central Park West, of course) and I thoroughly enjoyed discussing your response and we wish you the best of luck in your unhappy pursuit of that elusive market inefficiency.
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OK, “Financial Samurai”, this is how wealthy, upper west side dating works. Wealthy parents present their daughter to society as a debutante. The parents of the girl display their wealth so that a wealthy, male suitor knows that he will be asked to date a girl who is pretty, well-educated, and wealthy. Didn’t you watch Gossip Girl?
Wealthy people have done this since the beginning of time. Combined finances thru marriage.
Naive, poor girls attend fancy colleges in the hopes of dating a guy from a wealthy family.
The girls need to ask one question over coffee “did you attend debutante parties?” If he answers “of course” then the non-deb has to understand that his parents will not approve of her, and that she really cannot compete with the pretty, wealthy, and well-educated girls he has been told are OK to marry. Having something in common with him, like you both love programming, will eventually not override his need to please his parents.
Poor, pretty, smart women would have to read the obits to know when an old-money-wealthy man might be available.
I am not sure how “new money” men choose a wife. But we have got to separate new money from old money to understand the dating scene in NYC.
HA HA HA! Oh that was such a clever rebuff from the woman OF COUSE! “inflation-indexed junk bond with an underwater nested call option” LOL
Ah, she wins. She wins on several counts, first she came out first, second, she ended it.
It reminds me of a day long ago, as I was subjected to a couple fighting in front of me. He told her what a stupid, idiot she was. She paused, looked him up & down (and I knew it was coming) SO DID HE.
She said, “that’s right I’m a stupid, idiot & you are a very clever man… and that is why you married me and I’m married to you”.
She looked like a beaten dog. I couldn’t help but laugh out loud. He looked so beaten, I told him, you got to admit she’s good.
He knodded yes.
LOL (still laughing). Woman, ya gotta love em.
should say.. HE looked like a beaten dog. LOL (sorry, I was still laughing).
Simple solution …..lease. When it grows old, get a new model. Even a Ferrari gets old when the newest Lambo comes out. After 2 years you need a different perspective so turn the old one back in and get excited over a new one all over again.
They sound absolutely perfect for each other. They should get married and have a bunch of spoiled ungrateful children and then when the man gets laid off, he’ll develop a drinking problem and she’ll hire a biker to kill him for his life insurance money.
1. What “hot” girl talks like that: “allow me to hasten to reassure you that the source …” It’s not the 1800’s here.
2. Basically, the “hot” girl admitted she was lazy: “If the standards required to meet with financial success on Wall St. have sunk so low … the effort/reward ratio is far too high for my liking.” So once her beauty is complete gone, what good is she for? I doubt she’ll cook and clean.
3. She makes fun of his supposed receding hairline while bringing up plastic surgery? I guess the fix for fading looks only apply to girls.
4. Frankly, all the mumbo jumbo about nested call option, Chapter 11, etc. sounds like it was written by a Finance geek, who has never been with a girl, acting as some sort of white knight.
The trade off from the guy’s perspective is easy to understand. He is among the top 1% in terms of earning power and will likely stay there as long as he works. It is doubtful that the girl is in the top 1% in terms of looks and can stay there (especially given the way she wrote back). If the girl brought something to the table besides looks, that might offset her depreciating value.
The counter response was just confusing.
Good comment. I bet the guy doesn’t really believe what he posted – he just was responding appropriately to a thinly veiled gold digger post. The follow-up response – very unlikely the original poster made it (at least by herself). I know people with their MBAs (working outside of wall-street) who don’t even understand that level of financial jargon, much less a “super attractive 25 year old female” trying to find a guy making over 500k+. If she was really that hot and smart, she’d be making 500k+ herself working in finance in the city.
The only problem I have with the response is this line:
>>”By the way, you could always find a way to make your own money and then we wouldn’t need to have this difficult conversation.”<<
That line would only work for a man who is ALSO young, fit and attractive. Otherwise, an overweight middle aged bald man is expecting to bring less to the table than he's getting in exchange. Think about it: If he expects to date a woman who matches his financial worth, he better NOT expect her to be young and hot. Why would a woman bring more to the table than she's getting? If she's self-sufficient financially, I guarantee she doesn't want an old fat guy. So, rich men, unless you want to find yourself with a woman comporable to your own physical attributes, you better get used to your money being considered an asset in the dating market. Don't expect to land yourself a young, beautiful rich partner when you yourself only possess 1/3 of those assets.
The line you refer to isn’t even apropos to the conversation. His point is if you makes her own money, she doesn’t have to try to find men to give it to her and he wouldn’t have to point out the harsh realities (that you regurgitated): if she wants to “trade” her looks for money then, given the reality that her looks will fade and the money will grow, it is not a good trade for life but only until her looks fade. Because, as you point out, she’ll then be bringing nothing to the table; not looks, not money, and certainly not love. Whereas he’ll still be bringing money.
Men start out “poor” and struggle to date, women start out “pretty” and find it easy to date. Some women try to use their early prettiness to take the short-cut and marry money. Some men try to trade money for love after they’ve made their money. When they’ve made their money, rarely do they find women who’ve also made that money and, as usual with women, if they have don’t really need or want the men. If they don’t, the men are faced with two choices; women in their age bracket who make no money, who wouldn’t have dated them 10-15 years ago when *they* made no money but who will date them now; women their age who made money who don’t need or want men or want men with more money; young pretty girls who want men with money.
The real moral is “don’t expect to land a rich hot partner when you yourself only bring 1/2 the assets and in ten years will bring none”. Thus the guys response…
Wow, I had actually read the first two before on CL, but never the last one. And boy, what a turn this has taken! The best of Craigslist is truly an underutilized entertainment source. I was very impressed with the woman’s response (I wonder how much research she did to create that response or how much she knew of that already). So, given just how impressive her response was, I’m empathizing with the woman.
I empathize with the man! Maybe I am too old fashioned, but I find it a little offensive for the woman to advertise on Craigslist for a mate. She had a checklist of sorts of what she wanted which was money and only money! The man who responded basically put her in her place. She deserved it. It would be different if she were asking for advice instead of trading on her beauty. Who really knows if she is beautiful anyway. I had the feeling she put together a shopping list to check off and nothing more. Marriage is more than a checklist!
Ha there’s always gold hidden in craigslist
Love and money is a motivating force for a lifetime commitment between husband and wife. Where there is love, there goes the money. Where does the line get drawn between love and money? Or is there one? If a rich person is getting pursued by a person who isn’t rich – that’s one thing, but if couples are serious about each other, there has to be financial communication. If one person has their act together, and is paying off debt, and the other is constantly running for payday loans, this will create problems. As a couple, you have to hash these things out – work out financial goals, meet or exceed them, and have everything planned to the tee. That way, you can have the security of love and money that makes for a great relationship.
Wow, that’s…I don’t think I have the right words to express what exactly that is. In answer to your questions, I don’t think I emphasize with either of them. The woman, in her first post, definitely comes off as gold digger with few redeeming qualities; ignoring for a moment that ‘classy’ girls don’t go on craigslist to all but beg for rich guys to date them, her high opinion of herself and the fact that she believes she ‘deserves’ a rich husband (more than the ‘plain’ women who actually have some of these wealthy husbands) are big turn offs. (As a side note, presumably the ‘plain’ women are offering something to their rich husbands that the original poster and the beautiful, single girls hanging out in the East Village bars can’t match; intelligence, support, their own money, or heck, perhaps simply an attitude other than ‘we’re pretty, we deserve to have our every whim met’ might be enough to seal the deal.)
The guy’s response is wittier, and I could believe that he was writing more to pop the woman’s over-inflated ego than as a legitimate offer. That said, he still comes off as an unbearable prick; the idea that by 35, she would no longer be beautiful enough to still be marriageable (‘stick a fork in her’) is just distasteful. Add in the talk about ‘leasing’ her (which sounds like trader talk for dating with the expectation that when she is no longer attractive enough for him, he’ll dump her, presumably leaving her with nothing), which he offers to discuss further at the end of his post, and it’s definitely creepy.
The ‘woman’s response’ (and no, I don’t believe it is the same woman; although, perhaps with her boyfriend’s help…) is just depressing. Besides being so laden with economic jargon as to be nearly unreadable for anyone without an MBA (although, presumably that was the point), it manages to turn her from a shallow, vapid gold digger who believes women have nothing to offer beyond looks into something even worse. The references to plastic surgery, the idea that making her own money is too much effort (‘effort/reward ratio is too high’), and of course, as mentioned already by several people, the current boyfriend who not only apparently okay with her seeking a (presumably) wealthier man to marry, but actively helping her in her quest; all paint a disturbing picture of this woman’s life and the workings of her mind. If I wasn’t already thoroughly turned off by her gold digging manner in her first post, her response would definitely make me avoid this girl like the plague (not that she’d ‘lower’ herself to consider someone making $50,000 a year at most, anyway).
Nobody in this exchange, not the gold-digging woman, nor the self-important jerk, nor the unseen ‘trader’ boyfriend, comes off as the sort of person I’d want as a friend, yet alone a serious romantic partner. Give me a nice, easy-going, ‘plain’ girl any day of the week.
As for which I’d rather be, a beautiful girl or a rich man, I think I’d opt for being a rich man, seeing as I’m already a man and have no particular qualms with being such. Plus, if I was a rich man, I could afford to become a beautiful woman if that’s what I really wanted! ;)
.-= Roger´s last blog ..Weekly Thoughts: Helping Haiti (Safely) =-.
Roger, your comments are gold.
I think his point is not that by 35 she’ll be ugly but that, since all she is bringing to the table to marry and share the wealth of this rich man is her youth and beauty is that by 35 she will no longer be young and on her way out of being beautiful. Basically: if all you are offering in exchange for my wealth is not love or personality or wealth but looks and youth, in ten years you will have neither and I will have wealth. Why would I want to be married to a woman approaching middle age, no longer beautiful, who doesn’t love me and just wants my money.
This is hilarious – enjoyed the read and the comments, each and everyone of them! I actually knew a woman who for want of a better term, collected husbands. She was the mother of one of my daughter’s friends and strung a handful of prominent last names after her own first name. At first I thought that the first last name was her own family name and then the appendage of a married one who gasp may have died and she added a third by one of those hyphenated slate of marriage/divorce type things. You know, something like Liz Taylor Hilton Todd-Fisher (I think I skipped a husband and I know there were more later except Liz didn’t do that and moreover, she had more than scant bit of moolah herself – methinks) But lo and behold, my daughter enlightened me one day. It seems that her friend confided in her one day and told my daughter that she was so embarrassed that her mother insisted on adding on the name of her latest husband to the string of previous ones (I think there were 4 total). I don’t think this washed legally, but she certainly was beautiful and for whatever reason each successive husband did not seem to object. Aaahhh…. life is so funny. Come to think of it didn’t Ivana just dump her fourth?
best…………….valentina
.-= Valentina´s last blog ..Niche and keyword research for your blog =-.
Valentina – Your woman you talked about must have been quite a foxy saleswoman to collect 4 husbands! Don’t get the 4 last names strung together, but sounds good. I hope she made bank from the exes! :)
I’ve been a CEO for a few years of a small company that is actually backed by the NYC investment bankers and I don’t make more than 250K per year base salary.. but then again I don’t live in NYC either.
For the frustrated guys in the US who are tired of the BS of women like this come to Thailand for a holiday. You will feel like Brad Pitt and have lots of people vying for your attention. It helps to look clean cut and be polite. You soon start to realize what a ridiculous game this is and superficial women just aren’t worth it… too many fish in the sea.
Of course I’m in my mid-30’s now and have some perspective that comes with age.
-Mike
Treating a relationship as a business transaction — I love it! Especially the “depreciating assets” line!
At worst, the woman is a whore and is seeking sugar daddies with too much money and not enough brains to understand deceptive women and/or their intentions. Think of why any money-rich time-poor bloke be surfing craigslist for?
At best, the woman is genuine, but definitely not marriage material. Her intentions are clearly spelt out – find a rich man to marry and after a brief time divorce him and continue to enjoy her share of his estate. “I require additional compensation in the form of a underwater nested call option on your future assets.”
The woman is also a liar! The advert says she is looking for a boyfriend to eventually marry, and her following reply mentions her current boyfriend party to this craigslist advert. Ha… her filthy rich boyfriend writing adverts for his “spectacularly beautiful, articulate, classy, culutured, sophisticated” girlfriend on craigslist??? He couldn’t be an intelligent enough trader, or else he himself is looking to trade his current girlfriend with another less intelligent but richer man. I vaguely remember watching a movie with a similar storyline…
You email called their bluff out! Hence, their reprisal… Well done, but keep away from such women. I would never marry a woman with assests less than mine. Only then can an equal partnership be assured!
@ Bytta – Believe it or not, some believe that “school” is called Business School! lol At least, that’s what several of my female classmates have told me about their own intentions to find a man. Smart of them.. go to Harvard B-School, work a couple years, marry a HBS grad, and be done with the rat race!
” Interestingly, Sam, I read a while ago that there’s a school/agent/club in New York where they “prep” young women like her who want to marry upper class gentleman. They teach etiquette, manner, culture, etc, etc. I bet they would tell their students to go discreet about their business and not post a silly ad on Craigslist. “
Hmmm, well perhaps it wasn’t a ruse. But if it wasn’t a ruse, then the girl must not be very smart. Her post makes about as much sense as it would be to like look for caviar at walmart.. I agree with “Bytta @151 Days Off” with that point.
I think that there is more to life that just external beauty. I’ve dated knockouts in my past that after the first date I couldn’t stand. If I were rich like the men described, I would want a wife that is smart and dependable, and overall a good match to my personality. Not a wife that would be superficial and dump me for the next richer man. There is more than just looks in a relationship, and if that is what a marrage is based on, then I feel bad for both. Perhaps this is why the divorce rate is so high in America?
It might be a fun test drive (like a BMW ;)) but in the end go with the practical car that can rely be on (Toyota).
Either way, it’s and interesting read. Thanks for bring it to light…
.-= Moneyreasons´s last blog ..Perfect Snow =-.
Interestingly, Sam, I read a while ago that there’s a school/agent/club in New York where they “prep” young women like her who want to marry upper class gentleman. They teach etiquette, manner, culture, etc, etc. I bet they would tell their students to go discreet about their business and not post a silly ad on Craigslist.
.-= Bytta @151 Days Off´s last blog ..Day 5: What Happens When Whales Become Your Client =-.
I remember hearing this a while back but this was just as funny reading this again for the second time. Classic.
.-= Credit Card Chaser´s last blog ..Dave Ramsey & Credit Cards: I Love Ya Dave but You are Dead Wrong =-.
ha that’s crazy. The guy has some funny comments. The woman just sounds plain crazy – I’m surprised she actually had a bf at the time. “So, in economic terms you are a depreciating asset and I am an earning asset.” aaahaha
@ Lori – Love the comment, I’m not sure if you were channeling ur fiance, or if it was you, but well said!
@ ChadK – So rude of women to objectify us men for our wealth and stuff! lol
@ John – You’re welcome. I couldn’t stop laughing and had to re-read several times. The counter response was kinda boring though.
@ Bytta – Exactly, who are we to judge? If someone wants to have some fun with her, and she wants to be wined and dined by someone making over 500K, sounds good to me!
.-= admin´s last blog ..Everything Is Rational – The Answer To All Things Irrational =-.
@ Jesse – Wow, I need to find myself a job that allows me a 4 hour lunch break. SWEET! Or, are you saying you were so enraptured by this post and dialogue that we kinda took you away from work? :) WRT to your question on honorable professions, let’s talk about it in a separate post. It’s a good topic. In the meantime, read the “Everything is Rational” post for hints on my thoughts.
@ Neal – At least she’s open an honest! That says a lot about this woman. I like that she knows what she wants, and she wants it NOW.
@ Don – I really don’t think the initial post was a joke. It was quite real. Donald is the man and ladies love him! Can’t fault or hate for that!
I disagree with comments who summarise that she’s a “doofus” and his comment to be “brilliant”. Come on, this is 2010 for crying out loud! They deserve each other.
So she trades her beauty for his money. Another thing I notice is most people only focus on her physical aspect and missing out on her other qualities. Based on her posts, I can see that she’s also smart, articulate, sophisticated and bold about what she wants (although I can’t verify whether the her reply was written by her). Why is it hard for people see a woman past her physical feature?
Let’s forget about finding true love, this is not what she’s after. She wants a good trade deal. The only mistake I see on her part is the fact that she posted the ad on Craigslist. I’m not very familiar with the demography of their readers but I think she would have a better chance if she goes to an exclusive matchmaking agent specialised on wealthy clients. It’s a different world from mine and I don’t know how they manage the “transaction”. My take is, if she wants it (and it’s legal), she better do it right. Who am I to judge?
.-= Bytta @151 Days Off´s last blog ..Day 4: A Juggler and A Possibly Unemployed Person Who’s Been Bribed =-.
Thanks for the great entertainment. This was priceless!
John DeFlumeri Jr
.-= JOhn DeFlumeri Jr´s last blog ..Podcast* "When It’s the Wrong Time To Buy!" =-.
She’s thinking, “All things being equal, why do these so-so looking women end up with these fabulously wealthy men ?” But all things aren’t equal. They have something you don’t. Women thinking like this objectify men’s wealth and tastes and supports men’s thinking it’s ok to objectify women’s physical appearance. Men living alone, surfing porn in a one room apartment are thinking, “All things being equal, why can’t I seduce a hotty once in while the way I hear about guys like me doing ?” But things are not equal among them. You don’t get what you want. You get what you are.