There is nothing scarier than being in a situation where you have to call 911 in fear of losing someone's life. I've dialed those digits two times in my life. Both times I was scared sh-tless. Little did I know that the second call would lead me to a 11 month-long surprise ambulance bill nightmare.
The first time I dialed 911 was when I was in middle school. I was home alone with my mom when she fainted and wouldn't respond. If you're a parent, don't underestimate the importance of teaching your kids about 911 emergency services. You just never know what could happen.
The second time I dialed 911 was this past winter when our daughter unexpectedly went into anaphylactic shock. She was only 9-months-old at the time. Too young to speak, all she could do was cry and beg for “HELP!” through her eyes.
Fortunately, both my mother and daughter fully recovered. But unfortunately, I never expected that calling for an ambulance that second time would be the most expensive phone call of my life.
The Cost Of Calling An Ambulance: A Shocking Surprise
After we got past the chaos and waiting at the hospital, our follow up visit, and dietary adjustments, life got back to normal.
I didn't think much about how much we would owe in medical bills. I was just focused on making sure we didn't have another scare like that and counting our blessings.
We had a platinum PPO plan at the time with United Healthcare that cost $2,300 a month. Thus, I figured we'd owe a reasonable amount of money in co-insurance.
I guesstimated $200-$300 for the ambulance ride and $400-$800 for the ER.
But I found myself caught in a surprise ambulance bill nightmare about a month later. The horror story started when I got an envelope in the mail from AMR, American Medical Response, the ambulance company.
Unsuspecting, I ripped it open only to instantly feel my stomach knot up and my pulse shoot through the roof. It said I owed them $3,532 for our daughter's 20-minute ride to the hospital. What?!
I started to panic. Surely that's not right. We have insurance. There must be a timing issue. We can't owe that much with our plan.
Boy was I dead wrong. In actuality, I had just become another victim of surprise ambulance billing.
Related: How To Compare Health Insurance Plans And Save Money
What Is A Surprise Ambulance Bill Anyway?
If this is the first time you've heard of surprise ambulance billing, I'm glad you're reading! One of my goals this year is to educate more people about this horrible, convoluted dilemma that few people outside of the medical and insurance arena know about.
A surprise ambulance bill is an unexpected invoice of considerable size sent to a patient for out-of-network emergency transport. In other words, a giant balance bill from an ambulance provider.
Even though some insurance plans like mine say that ambulance transport for out-of-network providers is covered the same as in-network providers, there is a catch. And that catch is what screws a lot of people like me.
The catch is that if an out-of-network provider does not have contracted rates with your insurance carrier, they can charge you 5x, 10x, 20x, or more if they want.
Your insurance company will likely process the claim using in-network contracted rates. But since the ambulance company doesn't accept contracted pricing, they stick you with a balance bill.
Your chances of getting a surprise ambulance bill depend a lot on where you're located, your insurance, and if there are ambulance providers with contracted rates in the area. Some states and locales have laws to prevent surprise ambulance bills, but not many.
How An Ambulance Ride Cost 10x More Than Expectations
To further clarify how someone like me with top-tier PPO health care insurance got screwed, here's how things happened.
- AMR charges me ~$4,250 for our daughter's ALS1 Emergency transport, mileage, testing, medications, and monitoring services.
- My insurance company processes the claim as if it were in-network. They apply a plan discount of $3,360 bringing the “amount allowed” down to $898.
- Then my insurance company calculates my 20% co-insurance owed, which equals $180.
- My insurance company sends AMR a check for 80% of $898, which is $718.
- AMR records the $718 payment and sticks me with the $3532 balance.
- I get very PO'd, stressed out, and lose sleep over this BS situation.
- Screaming in my head, I decide to fight tooth and nail to get the charges reduced somehow.
The cost of calling an ambulance is extremely hard to figure out until long after the fact. By then, you just might be out of luck if you don't have the financial means to pay.
Getting The Runaround By The Insurance Company And Ambulance Provider
When I first saw my EOB (explanation of benefits) from my insurance carrier saying I would only owe $180, I was thrilled. The way I interpreted the claim, things looked good. Obviously, I didn't yet understand what was really going on.
I wait several weeks after getting the initial surprise ambulance bill. Then, I start to sweat the AMR balance isn't updating from $3532 to $180.
I call their customer service many times to try and get an update. But, all I get are impatient reps from an overseas call center saying “$3,532 is how much you owe ma'am. There is nothing we can do. How would you like to send payment?”
Grrrrrr. My normal calm demeanor turned red with anger.
After multiple calls to AMR, my insurance company, and a contracted third-party negotiator, I began to boil.
AMR wouldn't back down and said they couldn't negotiate rates “by law.” The third-party negotiator said they tried but couldn't do anything else to help me.
Finally, my insurance company said they reviewed my claim twice and that it was processed correctly. Ugh.
Determined To Fight A Messed Up System
Tired of talking to unsympathetic overseas reps for hours and not getting anywhere, I decided to turn my fire into fuel. I didn't want to pay such an outrageous bill without a proper fight. So, I decided that I would only bite the bullet and pay if I pursued all possible avenues.
I encourage you to also put strong emotions to good use. For example, you can use rejection as motivation to do more with your life. And you can use perpetual failures as an incentive to save money and plan for a better future.
I started to research other surprise ambulance bill stories and learn more about the system.
Even though I felt a $3,532 balance bill was excessive, I was shocked to hear some people have been slapped with surprise ambulance bills in the tens of thousands.
As part of my research, I wanted to find out if things could have turned out differently if we had taken a different ambulance.
Emergency Medical Services (EMS) Ambulance Providers In San Francisco
I was surprised to learn there are only 3 ambulance providers permitted to respond to ALS 911 emergencies in San Francisco. ALS stands for Advanced Life Support. BLS stands for Basic Life Support. EMS is the catchall term.
As it turned out, two of the 3 ALS providers showed up to our house almost simultaneously. The San Francisco Fire Department (SFFD) and American Medical Response (AMR). SFFD seemed to be there as backup and didn't charge us anything thankfully.
Here's a matrix of the current list of ambulance providers in San Francisco if you're curious.
The kicker – none of them are in-network with our insurance (UHC)! Turns out there are zero in-network ambulance providers within 30 miles of our zip code. AMR used to be in-network in San Jose, but terminated back in 2016. No other major insurance carriers in San Francisco have any in-network ambulance providers either.
So, I would have been screwed no matter who showed up at our house. I guess that makes me feel better.
Not really.
It's shocking the only in-network ambulance companies we have within a 60 mile radius are WestMed Ambulance in San Leandro and Hayward, and Baystar Medical Services in Burlingame.
The Positives Of A Surprise Ambulance Bill
Admittedly, I'm not always the best at seeing the bright side of a bad situation. I have a reflex tendency to panic and think the worst. But, there's always a silver lining if you look hard enough.
Even though this whole ordeal has been incredibly stressful, here are the positives of our surprise ambulance bill.
- Our daughter is alive and well, hallelujah!
- Saving her life is worth WAY more than $3,532
- 911 dispatch answered my call immediately
- And they dispatched the EMS team while I was still on the phone
- Both the SF Fire Department and AMR paramedics showed up crazy fast
- 6 EMS first responders were on site to help save our daughter's life
- The paramedics were SO calm, kind, and attentive
- We did not get COVID-19 on the ambulance ride or the hospital
- This ordeal motivated me to raise awareness of surprise ambulance bills and hopefully get us one step closer to more protective legislation
- Our ability to pay the ambulance balance bill can help keep AMR in business so they can save others' lives, including those who can't afford to pay
- The ~$3,300 in savings we got this year for switching from a Platinum to a Gold insurance plan covers most of the balance bill.
- My credit score could be in jeopardy, but I'm not done fighting yet!
The Health Insurance Saga Continues
Wondering if I caved in and paid the $3,532 balance bill? Nope! I fought for a very long 11 months and finally got a resolution. You can get all the details here and learn how to resolve a surprise ambulance bill as well.
It was a crazy roller coaster of a journey. But I learned so much and will never look at ambulances the same way again.
I also wrote a post on why our EMS system is broken, which I recommend you read as well. Lives and bank accounts are in serious trouble if things continue the way they are. You'll learn what's wrong with our EMS system, the gaps in current legislation, what should be done to fix it, and some important lessons I learned throughout my ordeal.
To be fearful of asking for medical attention because the cost might ruin your finances is just not right!
-Sydney
Sam's Perspective About This Surprise Ambulance Bill Fiasco
My dear wife shielded me from this saga for several months because she knew I would get pissed off as well. We have this running joke in our house for difficult situations: There's no need for both of us to suffer!
That afternoon, I decided to follow the ambulance to the Emergency Room while my wife accompanied our then 9-month-old daughter in the ambulance.
Due to COVID-19 protocols, I wasn't allowed inside the hospital. Only one parent or guardian was. Therefore, I waited in my parked car for five hours, praying everything would be alright. Not being able to help your child in need is one of the most difficult things a parent can experience.
During this time, it really got me thinking about how people and companies take advantage of others during their most vulnerable times. Although I'm thankful for the medical attention we received, I'm also surprised there isn't legislation in San Francisco, California to better protect its citizens from medical price gouging for ambulance rides like ours.
The surprise $3,532 ambulance bill makes me question the need for having a gold or platinum PPO health insurance plan that costs over $2,300/month.
If United Healthcare isn't going to cover such emergencies, we might as well get the cheapest health insurance policy possible. Maybe a doo doo brown plan.
Maximum Motivation To Build More Wealth
Costly medical bills is another reason why we need to stay focused on our finances. With no stable job with benefits and no government health care subsidies, we're on our own. I have no doubt roughly two-thirds of bankruptcies in America are due to medical issues.
After reading my wife's post, I'm now motivated more than ever to build more wealth and boost our passive income streams. I thought we had enough money, hence my current sabbatical and desire to re-retire. But perhaps not if medical costs continue to skyrocket.
The system has a way of keeping us trapped in a never-ending cycle to make more money. Ideally, I would like to get to a level of wealth where we don't have to stress about what a 20-minute ambulance ride costs. Is that so much to ask?
Please think twice before retiring early with kids or becoming an entrepreneur. Having one parent work a traditional day job may be the best combination if the other parent wants to take more risks.
At the end of the day, there's nothing like a health scare to make you appreciate life more! We just never know what tomorrow will bring, or heck what today will bring. Thus, if you have dependents it's important to consider buying life insurance.
Have A Pre-Mortem Checklist
Finally, the best thing we can all do is have a pre-mortem checklist for various types of potential emergencies.
List out the potential emergencies and list out the steps you would take in case of such emergencies. This way, you can think more calmly and rationally when bad things happen.
We now have antihistamines and epipens in case of future allergic reactions. We'll administer the medicine and we'll take our daughter to the ER room ourselves if necessary.
Of course, if things seem really bad, then we'll dial 911 and pay whatever medical bills that come our way.
Oh, and if you have a baby/toddler, the most common food allergies are: milk, eggs, fish, shellfish, tree nuts, wheat, peanuts, and soybeans. Sesame is another one that I've heard about from several moms.
Always discuss an action plan with your child's pediatrician before introducing new foods. It's helpful to go slowly in small increments. You can also have children's Benadryl or Zyrtec on standby if you know the correct dosage based on your child's weight. Please discuss this thoroughly with your child's pediatrician first for more details.
Recommendation: Get Life Insurance
If you have debt and/or dependents, it's important to get life insurance to protect your loved ones. I recommend getting free quotes with Policygenius, the #1 life insurance marketplace today.
With Policygenius, I was able to double my life insurance coverage to $1 million and pay less. For the longest time, Sam and I had mismatch life insurance coverage, which made no sense. Policygenius provides you real quotes all in one place so you can get the best price possible.
Readers, have you ever had to call 911 for an ambulance? Did you receive a surprise ambulance bill afterwards? If so, how much was it, what type of insurance did you have, and was the ambulance in-network? What city/state were you in?
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Hi, I think you will find this video quite an insightful – “John Oliver explains how emergency medical services function in the U.S., why they can be so expensive, and what we can do to fix things”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezv8sdTLxKo
Fiat Lux –
‘A $3000 per ride ambulance, driven by a minimum wage slave without health insurance for himself is the perfect sad metaphor for the clusterfuck which is US health care. That’s what you get if you promote greed and selfishness as a virtue while at the same time demonizing socialized medicine.’
Hi! I have worked as a paid EMT in the past and currently volunteer with my towns local service. Most volunteer services do what is called ‘soft billing’ where your insurance is billed and you are billed but if you cannot pay they do not send it to collections. I can’t completely justify the cost of you ambulance bill but I thought if I broke down the cost it might help. I will break it down per call which in your area is probably about 1 hour from the time you call 911 to that ambulance being cleaned, restocked, and paperwork completed.
Daily cost:
Ambulance $10 (ambulances are $250k new and need frequent replacement, certified, and insured.)
Fuel $10
Medics $75 (average pay is $25/hr in CA but add in insurance/retire/taxs/training)
Medication $300 (Assuming standard of care of oxygen, IV, benadryl, and epinephrine)
QA and Billing $50 (Assuming AMR has internal or cheap QA and billing)
Equipment $10 (equipment is rediculous. A stretch can be $30-50k, Cardiac monitors another $15k, uniforms, stairchairs. Maybe $100k in items that wear out.)
Downtime $40 (Ambulances don’t sit around all day but they need to be staffed between calls)
Total $485 cost per call.
Now keep in mind 911 ambulances legally need to transport regardless of ability to pay. A significant percentage of the patients cannot pay anything, such as drug overdoses, homeless, unemployed etc. Add to that the vast majority of ambulance calls are for elderly patients on Medicare which only pays a few hundred dollars at most (medicare is worse than insurance companies). Companies like AMR need to make all of their profit and cover costs on probably 10% of patients.
Insightful! Thanks for sharing. And also, thanks for volunteering.
I completely understand the need to make a profit and the need to charge more to cover those who cannot pay. It is what we do for taxes, healthcare, etc.
I just hope that more people don’t have to put off getting medical treatment out of fear of financial ruin. More transparency in pricing and more reasonable pricing would be a great start.
Hi, I am a class action attorney located in San Diego, California. I am currently in the process of investigating AMR for potentially unlawful billing practices like the ones discussed in your post. If you would be willing to answer a few questions for me, to help with my investigation into these surprise ambulance bills, I would appreciate it. Thank you!
Now to really piss you off, go ask how much the AMR paramedic makes from those insane charges…
(Just be clear, I’m being sarcastic and the Paramedic only sees a small, small fraction of the bill)
Unfortunately, I too experienced a very similar unexpected ambulance bill at a very similar time in my son’s life. Although different circumstances, my nine month old son just needed acetaminophen and was fine (dumb rookie parent mistake) but he was taken to the ER via ambulance because he was experiencing seizures and we panicked as new parents with our first child. Long story short, we had a high deductible HSA plan (like many people do today especially those in relatively good shape) and got burned by the high deductible. Even as a CFO of a healthcare provider and dealing with insurance companies all day, every day, it’s a very very complicated system that even has me double and triple checking my EOBs wondering what exactly is happening. The system is really built upon those with a high propensity to pay will subsidize those who cannot afford it, and unfortunately those who cannot afford it suffer from a downward spiral of lower credit and inability to grow long-term wealth. Not ideal and definitively regressive. However, as you say in the article, it’s best to set aside money for an “emergency fund” because you never know if it’s a health scare or flat tire, everyone has their bad luck quota and it’s best to be prepared when it’s your number called.
I’m glad your daughter is ok. Your system is so crazy – for someone like me who likes to plan, how you cope with these sudden expenses is beyond me. I’m very grateful that the UK has no bills atpoint of care, so birth of both daughters, one baby with broken leg, or my emergency admission and 5 day stay in critical care with pneumonia and sepsis cost us precisely nothing extra. Good luck for the future.
Oh actually, I did have a prescription for antibiotics that cost £9
United Healthcare is a SCAM, if you ask me. So are many other “insurance” companies.
CASE NO.1
I take my daughter to get a FREE mandatory shot to enter the school system here in the US. She had almost all shots already, missing one. I looked on the United Healthcare Oxford website for an in-network doctor, got an appointment and got the shot.
Supposedly FREE.
I got a bill for $884. After many calls and yelling, they still got us to pay $125. Let’s say it’s been 2 years since she saw a pediatrician, I just cannot afford this. So we keep her healthy and safe. We’ll have to look for a pediatrician here in New Jersey, as we moved, and on September she starts school again. Happy times :(
CASE 2
I get a referral from my PCP to have a mammogram and breast sonogram. Never had these since we immigrated (close to 3 years).
I call the hospital she works with, the tell me YOU ARE IN NETWORK. I go to have the procedures done and ask again, at the reception “are you sure you are in-network’ with me?”
As there are hundreds of practices that can do this in-network, I see no reason why I should go out of network.
YES, YOU ARE IN NETWORK.
This is what the receptionist tells me, after checking my insurance card.
I go in, have the procedures, now I have 2 big bills:
1. 800 dollars from the doctor who supposedly did the procedures (she appears out-of-network, although I was told we are in network). I didn’t see the doctor anyway, as procedures were done by technicians.
2. 3545 dollars from the hospital, the insurance company tells me they are not in network. I called the hospital 2 times already and they confirmed we are in network.
What do I do now?
Oh gosh, so sorry to hear what you’ve gone through! Case 1 – perhaps the doctor’s office put the wrong billing codes or billed to the wrong doctor. It’s so hard to know. I got $700-$800+ vaccine bills for my son a few years ago when his doctor’s office was going through administrative changes. There were all these delays on both sides that kept generating bills for out-of-network services by accident. I was on the phone constantly, but at least they told me there were errors. Eventually the bills cleared up.
Case 2 – I’ve heard about many cases of out-of-network doctors and technicians working at in-network hospitals. Maybe like this is what happened to you. There may also be confusion on network coverage for the specific insurance plan you have. For example some insurance plans with the same provider can have totally different networks. It can be so confusing.
Samurai Sydney
Great post. You are a talented writer and should continue to write as much as possible. Outrageous hidden medical costs are the great scandal of our time. When I was a kid very few people had health insurance. Knowing this, hospitals, doctors, ambulance companies etc knew they couldn’t charge outrageous prices because people wouldn’t pay it. As a result costs were relatively low. Of course 30 years ago lawyers and their clients were more ethical as well which kept medical lawsuits to a minimum. Suddenly, (I can almost remember the date in the 1980s) everyone HAD to have the job offered benefit of “health insurance” and then ALL medical costs went thru the roof. Why? Because whatever the insurance company limits were, suddenly…magically, that was the exact amount of the billing. It’s terrible and it will eventually drive a majority of the country to accept a socialist medical system – which may be the only thing worse than what we currently have.
P.S. Very happy that your daughter is well.
Thank you! I am humbled by so much feedback. I’m really glad I was able to share my story and am so shocked at how many other horrible medical billing stories so many people have. It’s nuts!
I called 911 but didn’t take a ride to hospital. Later I received a check for $1500 but I’d never received a bill. I contacted ins co and they had me tear up check and proceeded to inquire of correct billing. Later, ins sent me a check for $200 and I still hadn’t received a bill. I had to continue requesting a bill before I would pay $200.
I got screwed over as well. I fainted at work and even though I was ok, someone called 911, and when the paramedics asked if I wanted to go to the hospital, I remember thinking for a second, I’m going to get screwed over with the bill, but I was in a stressful situation so I went. Of course, a few weeks later, I received a bill for almost $1000 for a 10 minute ride to the hospital + an hour stay in the ER where they did nothing except take my blood pressure and monitor me. I tried calling my insurance company to fight it but they wouldn’t relent so I sucked it up and used my HSA money to pay it. I’ll never ever accept an ambulance ride again unless it truly is a life and death situation. Our health care system is so messed up – they don’t treat people like this in other countries. I was lucky that spending $1000 of my HSA money didn’t hurt me financially or put me into debt but I can’t imagine what I would do if I was making less money and living paycheck to paycheck.
I am a subspecialty surgeon in a small (2 surgeon) practice.
1) thanks for sharing this post and I’m very glad your daughter is doing well
2) I think your wife is a better writer than you are. Haha! Hi-you’re both very talented.
3) UHC is a sucky insurance product. They are huge and use their massive size to bully patients. They frequently deny necessary cancer procedures and scans that I fight hard to get covered. I will always waive my professional fee if still not covered but the hospital/anesthesiologist usually don’t do the costs are still crazy high.
4) we almost always give our patients a significant discount (at least 50%) if they are hit with a high bill and have any financial hardship. I have noted that the larger the practice or system, the less likely this will happen.
5) Medicare for all.
“I think your wife is a better writer than you are. Haha! Hi-you’re both very talented.” I agree!
My master plan is to have her do most of the writing so I can kick back and play more softball and tennis after fatherly duties. I hope my plan is working. A big goal during the sabbatical.
Good to know on UHC!
I remember that my parents got slammed with an ambulance bill when my sister broke her arm on a friend’s trampoline back in the 1990s. My dad had just started a new job after having been laid off, and the insurance hadn’t kicked in yet. The bill was $800! Just ridiculous, and of course, people have no idea how much it will cost in advance. It’s sad to see that there is still no regulation on the price of this emergency service, even after 30 years!
Agree 100%. I took pro bono bankruptcy cases when I practiced, and most of them were lower income people with outstanding medical bills. It was extremely frustrating to see, and the worst part was how they had depleted their savings trying to pay them and coming to us as a last resort.
The medical system (for profit) is broken. My SIL is a doctor and she has an ambulance driver who keeps bringing trauma patients to her small hospital that doesn’t have a trauma center and isn’t as well equipped.
She figured out that he brings them there because they are “in network” and he won’t be paid for the ride if he takes them to the larger center. Someone will eventually die because of this.
Oh my gosh, that is so messed up. Sounds like a major tragedy and lawsuit waiting to happen.
This type of situation is Why I hate the way we have medical care paid for in this country…… I have a few friends that had to file bankruptcy because of medical bills…….Paying a deductible and then 20 percent of what a company decides to charge in a situation where I have no way of negotiating any prices……seems we could do better……
Sam – glad your daughter is well, keep fighting the bill collectors!
So I have two somewhat similar stories, but both had surprisingly good outcomes.
Story #1. My kid fell and got scraped up pretty good at like 4:30pm.l on a Friday afternoon in 2019. Local doctor in network said best bet is surgeon at hospital as cut was smal but jagged and required stitches. Long story short hospital was in network but surgeon wasn’t. Surgeons office was very cool and said the out of network issue happens all the time but given circumstances, tell insurance company that hospital was in network and you had no choice in the matter who surgeon was. Insurance billed me $15k and I complained. Rejected first time and I complained second time. Someone at insurance company didn’t respond within the legal time on my appeal so $15k became $0, just like that. (A friend of our had the exact same issue and didn’t end up paying, so I don’t think I would’ve paid much if they got it right Billings wise).
Story 2: I had COVID in February and while it put me on my butt for a few days and I lost sense of smell, after day 5-6 I started getting better. Low and behold on day 10 I woke up in an ambulance because I had a seizure for the first time ever. 2 days in the hospital running a battery of tests, my bill came out to $30k minus $23k which insurance covered. So I called and googled everything I could about how to lower a medical bill. As I’m talking with insurance rep they said hey wait, did you have COVID cuz your hospital chart indicated that. And I said yes I tested positive 10 days prior but I went to hospital for seizure. Just like that they could tag the bill as COVID related and my bill was reduced to $17 bucks out of my pocket…
Morale of both stories, insurance is a scam and we can’t do a damn thing about it
Wow… such a maze and hairy process! Glad things worked out for you guys.
And I’m thinking, it must physiologically feel good to know you have more antibodies now against COVID too yeah?
This doesn’t just happen with ambulance bills. I went to the ER (by car) a couple years ago. The hospital was in-network but the ER was run by a separate LLC group that was out-of-network. My insurance paid the in-network rate but I was balance billed by the LLC. Jumped through the same hoops you did to negotiate the bill and fell flat. I ended up escalating to the insurance company’s account manager for the firm I work for. They approved a one-off payout for the remaining balance. Perhaps not an option if you are self-insured but for others in my situation maybe it will help.
OK. So the lesson here is to call the in-network hospital and make sure the ER is also in-network right? We’re going to do that. I think they are one and the same.
Wow didn’t realize that an ER could be on a different network than the hospital itself. Sheesh! How in the world do they expect consumers to know this stuff? Sorry you had to go through that!
Yeah in my experience working in hospitals a lot of ERs are contracted out ( physician services, not nursing. ) I actually once picked up shifts in a hospital where at least some of the ER docs in that hospital where not in network of the insurance the hospital employees ( it was a mess!) Some ER docs are locums and just pick up whatever shift comes their way in different hospitals.
I had a similar scenario with an ER bill. Was charged like $2k for all of 15 minutes while getting stitches. Doctor bill was separate. I got a call from a collection agency that demanded payment in full in like one week. I drove to the hospital’s business office to talk to someone in person. Found out it was standard practice to accept HALF in the first 6 months to settle the bill!! The collection agency keeps what they get over half… what a scam.
Wow haven’t heard of that before. That’s a total scam!
I’m sorry to hear you guys went through this with your daughter. Great to hear everything turned out ok.
I declined to pay a hospital bill 2 years ago following my daughter’s birth because I was double charged. I’ll spare the details, but was adamant in my stance and let it go to collections. It took about 6 months to hit my credit report and the decline was 181 points for an amount less than 1k!
If I could do it over I still wouldn’t pay, but I would have never spoken to the collection agent in the first place.
Hopefully you guys will continue to respond and fight in a more constructive way than I did.
Oh man, dealing with credit agencies suuuucks. So sorry you had to go through that. Getting double charged is outrageous. And the fact that the providers didn’t resolve that for you makes me so angry.
I’m from the Netherlands and reading this story and comments I can only think; how is this even possible? How can a 20 minute ambulance ride cost that much, how can it be that an emergency like that will not be covered by your insane costly insurance.? Afraid that eventually the Netherlands and our insurance companies will go the same way and just hoping we will not!
Yes it is crazy how many medical billing nightmares there are, not just mine! Hope things stay reasonable in the Netherlands. Speaking of which, I hope to return to Amsterdam someday. Had such a lovely trip there several years before Covid. The Netherlands is a beautiful country!
I use Blue Cross Blue Shield. Everybody takes them.
$400 balance bill from an out-of-network anesthesiologist at an in-network hospital for an epidural that didn’t work. That was nearly 5 years ago and I’m still furious about it.
Oh my gosh. I can’t even imagine going through that. Come to think of it I may have gotten balance billed for an anesthesiologist too in the past, but it wasn’t as high as that. I can’t imagine having to pay especially when the epidural didn’t work. ugh!
I’m sorry you had to go through this, but I’m glad to know that I am not the only person who’s mind boils about medical bills.
About 11 years ago, we were visiting a lot of doctors because of my wife’s rare condition that I eventually solved. So I got to really learn about the health insurance system, and even published an article about dealing with health insurance companies. About 10 years ago, my wife had to go to the emergency room due to a ectopic pregnancy. Everyone was in network, except one physician assistant. Of course we didn’t have a choice. He tried to bill much more than everyone else. Luckily, my health insurance covered (thanks to working for a large employer). Consumer reports did include our story in one of their articles.
I am disappointed that the newly introduce legislation does not include ambulances. In my own community, our local ambulance will waive all charges if you donate at least $55 a year to them. So I do that. Especially because years ago, I volunteered for a free ambulance service. However, if another ambulance responds, they can charge.
Oh wow. Ectopics are so scary. It is nuts how insurance companies can make things so difficult for patients when an out of network doctor treats you at an in network hospital. I think there are more protections for that scenario now than 10 years ago, but I don’t know the details. I just remember reading about that type of situation when I was learning about available legislation protections.
Fascinating that your community has a program like that. I’d pay that in a heartbeat if there was something like that in SF. And thank you for the time you spent volunteering when you did. Ambulance services are so VITAL!
Wow. Thanks for bringing attention to this practice.
My daughter has a severe food allergy (peanuts, tree nuts, and sesame) which is very tough to deal with. She has had two reactions which required going to the hospital and several others that were taken care of with an epi pen.
Even notifying restaurants that she has an allergy can sometimes not be enough as she was still accidently given an allergen on more than a few occasions despite the warning.
Glad your daughter is safe. Nothing worse than being a parent and feeling helpless when something happens to your child.
Oh wow such scary stuff. Good to know on the restaurant risk. We haven’t taken our daughter to dine out anywhere due to covid but will definitely play it safe down the road when we start taking her out to eat. I don’t want to go through another big scare like we did. Gives me chills just thinking about it.
Do you know anything about the volunteer EMS ambulances? Do they hit you with similar chrges?
Wow I didn’t realize such a thing existed! Sounds too good to be true. Based on a quick search, you could still get charged although I don’t know at what scale. For example, volunteer ambulances may have to rely on paid EMTs to fill shifts when volunteers are not available.
Glad to hear everything turned out alright with your daughter. The idea that an ambulance service would be ‘out of network’ is insane to an Australian. All the state and territory ambulance services are reciprocal and cost all of $50 a year, assuming that you’re not covered on a healthcare card, as a veteran, a pensioner, or by Workcover, Transport Accident Commission or from insurance.
Thanks Vincent. Yes, even though it’s been one heck of a nightmare billing-wise I’m just glad that she’s okay!
Wow what a HUGE difference with ambulance services in Australia. That’s taking care of citizens when they need help the most!
First, I’m sorry you and your family had to deal with this. The timing of this post is crazy because I’m dealing with an eerily similar situation. My 11 month old daughter had a febrile seizure and since my wife and I are new parents and have never witnessed a seizure before (convulsions, eyes rolling in the back of her head, stopped breathing, etc.) especially with a baby we called 911. Luckily, she’s okay now but I was totally shocked when I received the ambulance bill for $1,645, which was a 20 minute ride to hospital and the first responders only monitored her during the ride with my wife. The ambulance is an out-of-network provider and they told me they dont (and won’t) participate in any carriers network. I’m located in Rochester, NY and Aetna is my medical carrier. I’m currently still fighting this as well. Ironically, I work in the group insurance field (with ancillary products not medical) and this is completely irrational what we’re going through.
Oh gosh I’m so sorry you had to go through that. How terrifying! I had never heard of febrile seizures myself until I was catching up with a friend at a dinner party before covid. Her daughter was older, two I think, but went through a very similar experience and had to be rushed to the ER and hospitalized too.
I hope your daughter had a speedy recovery. And best of luck fighting your bill too. It’s so frustrating that insurance companies don’t cover these crazy out of network costs.